Last Night

[farmtruc]

.... You are not pushing the tranny to it's limits.....your tune is. I don't doubt Allen's tuning of your engine, but the tranny isn't even close and I haven't seen the file. By no means is this a rip on Allen....

If you haven't seen the tune/file, then how can you say the trans tune isn't even close and that I didn't tune it correctly???
I do take it as an attack and you have no idea why his trans is doing this, or if it's related, lol. All you're doing is assuming.
If you knew why his truck was doing that, you'd post it and tell us why, not say "let me tune the trans" and then start poking around in there questioning everything that has been changed.
If you can fix it, why don't you just tell him what is wrong since you understand every working of the A6?

I think it's hilarious when someone asks or questions the tune and why it's doing a particular thing, like mitch's is.
Ya, its' probably the tune, what I did was tune it so when nitrous was sprayed, it has this issue lol.
I will admit, tuning does cause issues once in a while, but stuff like this isn't tuned for. Meaning, a table wasn't changed so that this issues is there.
More than likely, it's an issue that nobody has run across and there is usually a table that is eventually identified by hptuners that allows us to fix the issue.
Just like when someone asks, "can you check the tune and see if my trans tables are right, my trans is slipping" wth! How about the clutches are burned up and they aren't holding.

Being a good tuner doesn't mean owning the same type of truck, or tuning a high hp vehicle. If a tuner out there has tuned literally 1,000's of files, don't you think he's probably learned a thing or two?

How do you know I don't understand the workings of a A6?

The only thing I agree with you on is most big shops out there tune incorrectly, that is true and you'd be surprised how many do it. I've seen almost all the big name shop tunes out there.
Hell, I'm probably considered a bad tuner by other shops as well.

I've been tuning the A6 since the ability was given to us and they all run great, and none of them have burned up!

The 6 speed is a more advanced transmission, but they all work the same, just some have more features than others.
You should know this as well, 90% of those tables in the trans cal aren't even used by tuners.
Tuning a trans isn't rocket science or magic, it's straight forward.
You basically have line pressure, shift points and TM.
What else is there?

Now to answer the question on why I think your truck is doing this mitch;
I believe your truck is reaching an acceleration limit, has nothing to do with the way the trans is tuned.
Yes, it started happening after the tune, but did you ever spray on the stock trans/engine calibration? NO, and I don't recommend it, so everything you do or mod is after the tune.

[midevil1]

If you haven't seen the tune/file, then how can you say the trans tune isn't even close and that I didn't tune it correctly???
I do take it as an attack and you have no idea why his trans is doing this, or if it's related, lol. All you're doing is assuming.
If you knew why his truck was doing that, you'd post it and tell us why, not say "let me tune the trans" and then start poking around in there questioning everything that has been changed.
If you can fix it, why don't you just tell him what is wrong since you understand every working of the A6?

I think it's hilarious when someone asks or questions the tune and why it's doing a particular thing, like mitch's is.
Ya, its' probably the tune, what I did was tune it so when nitrous was sprayed, it has this issue lol.
I will admit, tuning does cause issues once in a while, but stuff like this isn't tuned for. Meaning, a table wasn't changed so that this issues is there.
More than likely, it's an issue that nobody has run across and there is usually a table that is eventually identified by hptuners that allows us to fix the issue.
Just like when someone asks, "can you check the tune and see if my trans tables are right, my trans is slipping" wth! How about the clutches are burned up and they aren't holding.

Being a good tuner doesn't mean owning the same type of truck, or tuning a high hp vehicle. If a tuner out there has tuned literally 1,000's of files, don't you think he's probably learned a thing or two?

How do you know I don't understand the workings of a A6?

The only thing I agree with you on is most big shops out there tune incorrectly, that is true and you'd be surprised how many do it. I've seen almost all the big name shop tunes out there.
Hell, I'm probably considered a bad tuner by other shops as well.

I've been tuning the A6 since the ability was given to us and they all run great, and none of them have burned up!

The 6 speed is a more advanced transmission, but they all work the same, just some have more features than others.
You should know this as well, 90% of those tables in the trans cal aren't even used by tuners.
Tuning a trans isn't rocket science or magic, it's straight forward.
You basically have line pressure, shift points and TM.
What else is there?

Now to answer the question on why I think your truck is doing this mitch;
I believe your truck is reaching an acceleration limit, has nothing to do with the way the trans is tuned.
Yes, it started happening after the tune, but did you ever spray on the stock trans/engine calibration? NO, and I don't recommend it, so everything you do or mod is after the tune.

I have been in the build and design business of trannies for 15 years. I build trannies that cost $8,000 to $80,000, so I guess their owners trust that I know what I am doing..LOL. Certs. a mile long.

Swallow your pride and get a tranny tuning class. This is not a 4lcrape series tranny. What is a acceleration limit? His powerband? His Max MPH? So.....he is only running those times because of a lack of horsepower? The A6 WILL DO "anything" you tell it too. GOOD or BAD.

I use all the tables in the A6 because I know them and understand them. Mitch WILL hurt his tranny, if he hasn't already if that is the way you were thinking when you tuned it.

The A6 doesn't work the same as any of GM's previous RWD vehicles. It shares similarities with the 6T series trannies. It doesn't use the same electrical or hyd signals.

Take this how you want to Allen, but you are barely treading water with the A6 from what you have said. I don't care 1 way or the other. You have a reputation and shop to stand up for and I do this for sheer pleasure of the owner of the vehicle.

Let's run his truck at the track with your tranny tune and then mine and see whats what.

I am busy, so response can be slowwwwwwwwwwww.

[farmtruc]

I have been in the build and design business of trannies for 15 years. I build trannies that cost $8,000 to $80,000, so I guess their owners trust that I know what I am doing..LOL. Certs. a mile long.

Swallow your pride and get a tranny tuning class. This is not a 4lcrape series tranny. What is a acceleration limit? His powerband? His Max MPH? So.....he is only running those times because of a lack of horsepower? The A6 WILL DO "anything" you tell it too. GOOD or BAD.

I use all the tables in the A6 because I know them and understand them. Mitch WILL hurt his tranny, if he hasn't already if that is the way you were thinking when you tuned it.

The A6 doesn't work the same as any of GM's previous RWD vehicles. It shares similarities with the 6T series trannies. It doesn't use the same electrical or hyd signals.

Take this how you want to Allen, but you are barely treading water with the A6 from what you have said. I don't care 1 way or the other. You have a reputation and shop to stand up for and I do this for sheer pleasure of the owner of the vehicle.

Let's run his truck at the track with your tranny tune and then mine and see whats what.

I am busy, so response can be slowwwwwwwwwwww.

I'm not trying to change what you think and feel about the trans or questioning your ability to build them, I'm responding to the fact that you said the tune was off, without looking at it.

I know of master trans mechanics and guys who claim to have built expensive transmissions as well, but that doesn't mean they know how to tune them. They know how to build them! I'm not saying you don't know how to build or tune them either, but that's what you're saying to me.
As far as certs, well I just looked at my tuning database and I guess the 170+ A6 transmissions I tuned in '07 that haven't burned up and the 68 A6 trucks for '09 don't count, oh well.

Acceleration limit and Commanded tq tables limit the trucks ability to produce power and accel. Most ppl just call them TM tables. Weird results happen when TM shows it's ugly head. It's up to the ecm hackers to find those tables, not us.
What I was referring to resides in the ECM.

Let's break down the tables that hptuners and efilive have given us to tune.
That's what I'm assuming you're using, right? These tables are available for editing, but that doesn't mean the hackers have it right, they don't define how GM's OS logic works, they just give us the ability to change some tables.

On the first tab I see Shift Speed. Wow, just a bunch of shift patterns that allows us to change when the transmission shifts based on MPH and Throttle position and what position the selector is in. There is also tap up and down control with rpm based shifting at wot. Not any real magic here, just looks like more shift tables to me. BUT, working these tables will surely make a truck feel much better.

Second Tab first column has to do with shift speed or time.
Knowing these tables will allow for quicker shifts.
Each table and tab is labeled, so just read and alter the shift speed, however, know what you're changing and keep in mind, changing tables according to what the definitions says, doesn't mean that's what will happen.

Third row, shift pressure. Has all the wonderful shift patterns for each axis and gear based on temp and torque. Again, more complex, but it comes down to, the more pressure at the right time, the better/firmer the shift. Again, know what you're changing before you alter the tables. I see Adaptive learning, either way is fine, turning it off just allows more predictable control, but I leave it on.

General Pressure tab, empty.

TCC settings, same crap as always, just two more gears and more tables to tune.

TM tab, well, it's TM, increase the tables and disable the drop downs. I change most of these tables, but leave three alone.

I know this was long and drawn out, but show me where all the magic and crazy stuff is in the calibration that we have access to. Granted, there may be more hidden tables, but what is there is straight forward, just like all the other transmissions in the past.

I'm not saying the A6 is less complex, but you or I do NOT change the code and logic GM has set. We simply change what is given to us. We're not here to rewrite the OS.
That is where the transmission class comes into play. You probably understand every electrical pulse and function of the trans, but you don't get to tune that, do you? You probably understand all the logic and all the mechanicals, that's awesome! BUT, you're still left with using a program that anyone can buy and learn.
Unless you have some crazy ass application from GM that alters every aspect of the GM OS.

I'm sure a class for the new transmission would be nice, but I don't care to build transmissions, you do.
What you/me need is a transmission tuning class, that links building a trans to tuning a trans.

btw, check the hptuners.com website, a lot of ppl are having the same issue.
Does that mean every shop out there doesn't know how to tune the new A6 trans?

What we're facing is something like COT, way back in the day. Tuners wanted to know why a/f ratio was going rich during a hard wot run, well, after the hackers found the table that disabled COT, it was easy.
Same thing here, there is a table that is interfering with acceleration or torque output and doesn't take a master builder or tuner to fix it.
We'll have to wait for hptuners, in my case, to figure it out based on feedback from tuners like me and you.

and omg, you just made me type more words in a post than I ever have, thanks! lol.

later,
allen

[midevil1]

I'm not trying to change what you think and feel about the trans or questioning your ability to build them, I'm responding to the fact that you said the tune was off, without looking at it.

I know of master trans mechanics and guys who claim to have built expensive transmissions as well, but that doesn't mean they know how to tune them. They know how to build them! I'm not saying you don't know how to build or tune them either, but that's what you're saying to me.
As far as certs, well I just looked at my tuning database and I guess the 170+ A6 transmissions I tuned in '07 that haven't burned up and the 68 A6 trucks for '09 don't count, oh well.

Acceleration limit and Commanded tq tables limit the trucks ability to produce power and accel. Most ppl just call them TM tables. Weird results happen when TM shows it's ugly head. It's up to the ecm hackers to find those tables, not us.
What I was referring to resides in the ECM.

Let's break down the tables that hptuners and efilive have given us to tune.
That's what I'm assuming you're using, right? These tables are available for editing, but that doesn't mean the hackers have it right, they don't define how GM's OS logic works, they just give us the ability to change some tables.

On the first tab I see Shift Speed. Wow, just a bunch of shift patterns that allows us to change when the transmission shifts based on MPH and Throttle position and what position the selector is in. There is also tap up and down control with rpm based shifting at wot. Not any real magic here, just looks like more shift tables to me. BUT, working these tables will surely make a truck feel much better.

Second Tab first column has to do with shift speed or time.
Knowing these tables will allow for quicker shifts.
Each table and tab is labeled, so just read and alter the shift speed, however, know what you're changing and keep in mind, changing tables according to what the definitions says, doesn't mean that's what will happen.

Third row, shift pressure. Has all the wonderful shift patterns for each axis and gear based on temp and torque. Again, more complex, but it comes down to, the more pressure at the right time, the better/firmer the shift. Again, know what you're changing before you alter the tables. I see Adaptive learning, either way is fine, turning it off just allows more predictable control, but I leave it on.

General Pressure tab, empty.

TCC settings, same crap as always, just two more gears and more tables to tune.

TM tab, well, it's TM, increase the tables and disable the drop downs. I change most of these tables, but leave three alone.

I know this was long and drawn out, but show me where all the magic and crazy stuff is in the calibration that we have access to. Granted, there may be more hidden tables, but what is there is straight forward, just like all the other transmissions in the past.

I'm not saying the A6 is less complex, but you or I do NOT change the code and logic GM has set. We simply change what is given to us. We're not here to rewrite the OS.
That is where the transmission class comes into play. You probably understand every electrical pulse and function of the trans, but you don't get to tune that, do you? You probably understand all the logic and all the mechanicals, that's awesome! BUT, you're still left with using a program that anyone can buy and learn.
Unless you have some crazy ass application from GM that alters every aspect of the GM OS.

I'm sure a class for the new transmission would be nice, but I don't care to build transmissions, you do.
What you/me need is a transmission tuning class, that links building a trans to tuning a trans.

btw, check the hptuners.com website, a lot of ppl are having the same issue.
Does that mean every shop out there doesn't know how to tune the new A6 trans?

What we're facing is something like COT, way back in the day. Tuners wanted to know why a/f ratio was going rich during a hard wot run, well, after the hackers found the table that disabled COT, it was easy.
Same thing here, there is a table that is interfering with acceleration or torque output and doesn't take a master builder or tuner to fix it.
We'll have to wait for hptuners, in my case, to figure it out based on feedback from tuners like me and you.

and omg, you just made me type more words in a post than I ever have, thanks! lol.

later,
allen

I dump my PM's on HP twice a week about the A6. All the big boys wanting to know what to do. Got 2 2010 Camaro's waiting right now. Both stroker FI cars. The control issue's with the A6 on HP are being worked out.

They may not have burnt up, but do they perform at their FULL potential?

I am not just a master builder. I am Level 4 tech in controllers. Leaving for Germany for a month to the ZF factory. You think American trannies are complicated. Play with a new BMW! LOL! I KNOW HOW TO TUNE. I am not here to have a pissing match on who knows what. I have been talking with Mitch for quite sometime about possibly helping with his issue's.

I am willing to help Mitch..... FOR FREE!

You would be amazed at what can be done to the A6. Being open minded is a virtue........