4L60E Death

[fullthrottledan]

ok after 4 bottles in 2 weeks on a 150 shot, my tranny slips really bad after 4k in second gear then it wont shift into 3rd at WOT, with or without nitrous.

I am taking it out this week, and want to know what i should replace while im in there.
so far i have a transgo shift kit, and i looking to get a transtar rebuild kit with kevlar bands and stronger clutches. getting the billet servos, and a TT3000, but dont know if i should get a different sun gear and input shaft. i dont want this thing to blow up on me again.

i want to stay with the 60e for now, later i will upgrade to a 80e

any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Dan

[fullthrottledan]

ok now that i am thinking about it, why not just do a 6 speed. how hard are they to convert over?

[farmtruc]

You know it was bound to happen, lol. I don't know how you went thru 4 bottles, I have a hard time just filling up one , hahah, it's a pita., lol.

I know I always refer to him, but give Joe a call at JAG and see what he says, he'll set you up with all the parts .

a 6speed would be badass, but if you want good , consistent 1/4 mile times, go for the auto, (i'm going to get shit from the manual guys, hahah)

later,

allen

[Hit Man X]

This is the most complete list I have...

FIRST, THIS GIVES YOU A VERY DETAILED IDEA OF HOW TO BUILD A 4L60E TO TAKE SOME SERIOUS ABUSE. THIS IS INFO I HAVE COLELCTED, READ, RESEARCHED, AND PIECED TOGETHER INORDER TO FIND THE BEST POSSIBLE SOLUTION FOR THE 4L60E. I TAKE NO LIABILITY IN WHAT IS HERE, BUT IT GIVES AN OVERVIEW OF WHAT IS INCLUDED. Do not go and buy parts until you speak with a good reliable transmission builder. That way when it gets built, you and (s)he will know what to expect and how it will perform. Plan your attack, you wouldn't want to get stuck with incrorrect parts would you???



THESE ARE JUST A FEW BASICS:
1 - A quality paper and rubber kit, be sure to use new bushings as well as bearings too
2 - Take up the end play, and verify the clutch pack clearances. End play and slop helps kill transmissions almost as quick as heat does.
3 - Throw away the "load release" springs out of the 3-4 clutch pack.
4 - Use high quality frictions and steels. Alto Red Eagles, Raybestos Blue Plates, Borg Warner Tans.
5 - Toss check ball from: input shaft, No 5, and No 3.
6 - Block the 4th accumulator
7 - Ditch the servo check ball and capsule from case, install a cup plug in place.
8 - Check 2-4 band clearance
9 - BIG transmission fluid cooler

Sonnax HD 1-2 and 3-4 accumulator springs - Helps with the 1-2 upshift and 3-4 upshift.
Sonnax Pinless Aluminum Forward Accumulator - Stock can be plastic, this is pinless
Sonnax Pinless Aluminum 1-2, 3-4 Acuumulator - Stock is usually plastic, cracks, loses pressure.
Sonnax Servo Release Check Valve - Limits 3-2 downshift tieup/burning
Sonnax Fwd/Rev Abuse Bore Plug - Prevents burning of the clutch packs and band
Sonnax TCC Lockup Conversion - Makes TCC Lockup an ON/OFF setup, very slick
Sonnax Stator Support Shaft - More flow to the 3-4 clutch pack and prevents converter overheat...you may or may not need this.

Clutches and Band:

2-4 Band - Black Kevlar Lined 2-4 Band OR Kevlar (Std) 2-4 Band OR Alto 2-4 Band (Alto and Std Kevlar requires wider input drum) - greater holding capacity, less likely to break off band anchor than OE, anchor on the Altos are 60% greater. Oversized Kevlar and Alto are 3/8 wider that stock band. Most late hardened input drums from TDE are ready for the wider band. The standard band is still wider than pretty much all other transmissions so it's not a necessity.

3-4 Clutch Pack - Preference

Low/Reverse and Forward - Preference

I'd go Alto Red Eagles (9 with the thinner steels or 8 with the thicker ones) or Borg Warner High Energy Tans. I don't see the need for the Blue Plate Specials...the Z-Pak from Raybestos is slick too.



HARD PARTS:

29 Element Foreward Input Sprag - far better in HO applications
13 Vane Pump Conversion Kit - extra fluid flow at higher RPMs
Heavy Duty 5 Pinion Front Planetary - 5 pinions vs 4, stronger under load, hardened gears, made of powered metal
Heavy Duty 5 Pinion Rear Planetary - 5 pinions vs 4, stronger under load, hardened gears, made of powered metal
Heavy Duty Reaction Carrier Shaft - eliminates need for thrust washers, works in conjunction with the Sun Gear Shell
Heavy Duty Reaction Sun Gear Shell - limits cracking and splitting on bearing area
Heavy Duty Input Shaft and Drum - limits stress cracks on drum, limits broken shaft
Heavy Duyy Output Shaft - limits broken shafts
TransGo shift kit - .500 boost valve, HO Pump Spring, 1-2 accum spring, fixes problems like...3-4 burnup, 2-3 overlap, delay bangs, poor 3-2 kickdown, etc. PSK or HD2 kits.
Superior Intermediate Super Servo - greater band holding power, much better 2-3 shifts, excellent 1-2 shifts, 35% more apply than 'Vette servo
Superior Overdrive Super Servo - greater holding power in 4th, much better 3-4 shifts, 50% more apply than OE part, comes with billet cover too

Any good rebuild kit should have most of these parts, the specific parts needed will be per kit. KDSperformance.com stocks tons of parts. Anything else a trans shop should be able to get. The weakest part is the Reaction Sun Gear Shell, I am unsure if anyone makes a forged/billet one...but if someone does and you are pushing insane amounts of power, get it.

Once you have that stuff done, then it comes down to the builder. Some like tight clearances for less slop, others like looser for less drag. Really depends. I'd shoot for the medium range on them. I haven't built one to have it blow up so I can't say what would work better in what scenario. Tight may be better for HO apps and looser for towing.

Additionally, many hard parts can be cryogenically treated and stress relieved to increase strength and duraibility...sure it costs more but when you are pushing the limits of the 4L60E you need everything done. Once your internals are fully prepped to resist breaking, I begin to see the 3-4 pack burn up...I believe mainly due to insufficient fluid flow and incorrect clearances. I have noticed that you can run even thinner steels and run thinner clutches in the 3-4 and forward gear to be able add more holding power. I am unsure of any additional holding power with the thinner frictions and steels as if you add too many thin ones you may lose the additional holding power by the abundance of the frictions and steels in the pack. Additional clutches in the 3-4 may require machining to fit also.

Finally super hard shifts are bad even on the best internals. Just go with a fully installed TransGo, NO washers in the 1-2 accumulator, and both billet servos for an excellent shifting as well as not overly hard trans.

[1TRUESS]

All I have to say is good luck and hopefully I am not in the same boat you are in any time soon!

[derek_silverado]

Hit man X:
What would a build up like that cost that could handle say, 450 crank hp achieved through spray, cost if a tranny shop was doing it.

I want to spray my truck also, but I'm scared of ending up like dan. And knowing that ending up like dan is inevitable, I want to have money put away for the tranny/engine rebuild.

[Hit Man X]

Originally posted by derek_silverado@Jul 26 2004, 11:36 PM
Hit man X:
What would a build up like that cost that could handle say, 450 crank hp achieved through spray, cost if a tranny shop was doing it.

I want to spray my truck also, but I'm scared of ending up like dan. And knowing that ending up like dan is inevitable, I want to have money put away for the tranny/engine rebuild.

Well labor would be like $450-700. Then add all the parts...I'd say at least $800-1300 in parts. Depends how far you want to go.

If you're shooting for that HP level, I'd get all the hardened internals for sure... may not need the 5 pinion plants. All the other stuff I'd go for.

Most failures are due to shitty builds...

[derek_silverado]

So... lets see.. If I were to have say a 425 HP engine (unlikely I'll ever get that) and I wanted my tranny to hold through occasionaly track trips, etc.

Could I have a good tranny to hold that kind of power for about 1500?

[Hit Man X]

Originally posted by derek_silverado@Jul 27 2004, 11:03 PM
So... lets see.. If I were to have say a 425 HP engine (unlikely I'll ever get that) and I wanted my tranny to hold through occasionaly track trips, etc.

Could I have a good tranny to hold that kind of power for about 1500?

I do not see why not, labor is the biggest factor in performance work. Once you keep internals from breaking the next weak link is the 3-4 clutch pack. I think I am going to run an 8 or 9 clutch Alto Red Eagles setup with either their thinner steels or the standard thickness ones...either way made by Kolene.

Just recall that the Alto setup is EVER so slightly thinner than OE..like .065 vs .062, so it's not much. I do not think I'll require the holding capacity of 9 clutches where 8 would be okay for me... (375-400rwhp is fine). So that's why I'd consider using the thicker steels.

Oh yeah, on the 2-4 band the Red Eagle one is fine...Kevlar may hold better in all out racing setups but I haven't heard of a toasted stock 2-4 band let alone an aftermarket that's wider and with a thicker anchor.

The valve body controls the tranny...I'd do everything to make sure it doesn't take a poop on you. I'm looking for an extra stock 4L60E VB myself to try some stuff out on too. Just try to update it as far as possible and stuff the TransGo in there, that should hold it together a while longer.

Must go,
Eric