front mount vs. rear mount

So I've been seriously considering switching from rear mount to front mount turbo, particularly the trick turbo but I'm not sure of a few things.....

1 - Even with an intercooler, what kind of IAT do you see in relation to ambient air temps?

2 - How fast does the front mount spool?

3 - Do you retain every day drivability?

4- Where do you tap into the oil for the turbo's feed and return lines?

5 - Will I see an improvement on my 60' running about the same amount of boost?

6 - About how much power per # of boost will I see?

I could use some good advice, answers and suggestions. Thanks in advance

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jetmech

So I've been seriously considering switching from rear mount to front mount turbo, particularly the trick turbo but I'm not sure of a few things.....

1 - Even with an intercooler, what kind of IAT do you see in relation to ambient air temps?

2 - How fast does the front mount spool?

3 - Do you retain every day drivability?

4- Where do you tap into the oil for the turbo's feed and return lines?

5 - Will I see an improvement on my 60' running about the same amount of boost?

6 - About how much power per # of boost will I see?

I could use some good advice, answers and suggestions. Thanks in advance

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1. as for temps im usually 20* above ambiet. that is no meth no e85. this is after a 1320 pass. if im cruising im only 10* above ambiet. when i was running E85 i seen a drop of 5* below ambiet with it after a full pass.

2. well my setup isnt for most. mine spools decently for the size of it but im not full boost till about 4500-5k i spin to 7500 tho. my setup is like a huge cam motor.

3. my truck is everybit daily capable. if its nice out im driving it. nothing out of ordinary comes up. on highway ive got as good as 19mpg. i live in a area with hills everywhere

4. my oil feed is above the filter and return is by the starter

5. boost is measurement of restriction. its hard to say, you might gain that all depends on the volume of air you take in

6. this also depends on how efficent your setup is. im around 29 rwhp per pound of boost. the cooler the temps the more volume you can stuff the more power per psi youll make

Got it. I take it the cats get deleted all together

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Originally Posted by jetmech

Got it. I take it the cats get deleted all together

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whats a cat? :)

catalytic converter

Go front mount or go home.

doing a rear mount install on car with room in the
engine bay is dumb.

You want your turbo as close to the engine as possible.
A hot turbo is a happy turbo.


Let's get a little technical on WHY a front is better since we get this question a lot. .................

exhaust gasses coming right out of the engine are HOT
since they are hot they are expanded,
expanded gas in same space must move faster to achieve flow thru
smaller space. faster gasses going into turbo equals faster spool.




you can have a CAT if you want too.
I designed my front mount to have a high flow Cat.
Gonna try and work in an electric cut-out pre-Cat but dont know if have room.

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2.../install12.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jetmech

catalytic converter

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i know just being smartass..since i havent had cats in many years

Quote:

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Originally Posted by r.barn

Go front mount or go home.

doing a rear mount install on car with room in the
engine bay is dumb.

You want your turbo as close to the engine as possible.
A hot turbo is a happy turbo.


Let's get a little technical on WHY a front is better since we get this question a lot. .................

exhaust gasses coming right out of the engine are HOT
since they are hot they are expanded,
expanded gas in same space must move faster to achieve flow thru
smaller space. faster gasses going into turbo equals faster spool.




you can have a CAT if you want too.
I designed my front mount to have a high flow Cat.
Gonna try and work in an electric cut-out pre-Cat but dont know if have room.

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2.../install12.jpg

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Being in California I kinda need a CAT, but trust me I don't want them

Well being in Kalifornia I dont see how you get ANYTHING not in "stock" form
past an inspection.

Technically the federal law says you can not tamper with, replace or remove any
functioning catalytic converter.

This is one of this debates that has no real answer. There will be people from both sides that have great points. What it really comes down to is what YOU want/like.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by r.barn

doing a rear mount install on car with room in the
engine bay is dumb.

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That's why the fastest GTO in the nation has a rear mount TT set-up right?

I honestly don't know why people hate on rear mounts so badly. Look at what David did...stock 5.3 with 12psi on a rear mount and he's in the 12's. People have made some great power with them. Yeah people make big power with front mounts too. But not many people go with rear mounts cuz they are "unproven" but it seems to me that in order to make something "proven" people have to use them.

Just my :twocents:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by r.barn

Well being in Kalifornia I dont see how you get ANYTHING not in "stock" form past an inspection.

Technically the federal law says you can not tamper with, replace or remove any functioning catalytic converter.

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The law does allow you to R&R a cat after 10,000 miles.

I used to live in San Diego, CA. One can ignore vehicle inspections by registering your vehicle(s) in a smog-check exempt zone. Mine were registered from 1999-2005 in such a zone and I never had to inspect my vehicles. Of course, I didn't worry about the smog-police because my cars had the factory emissions equipment intact, including the cats.

:thumb:

A GTO has no room under the hood without major redo for a front mount so r. barn's is sorta still in tact.

If you already have a rear mount might look into our low mount pipe set up. 500.00 moves the turbo ALOT close to the front. Right beside the tranny area.

Somethings alot of people over look is not just the heat, but the exhuast pulse energy. The closer you are the more you have of it.

You can reinstall a HI flow cat to pass any visual emmissions stuff...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bangbangskeetskeet

That's why the fastest GTO in the nation has a rear mount TT set-up right?

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GTO has a rear mount system cause that the only place they will fit.
Sure they "work", but they will never be "optimum"

did some testing yesterday to see where i build boost and etc. with the 410s and a slight grade around 35mph if im in 2nd gear i can see about 5psi by 3k by giving it full throttle. i also did same test in 4th gear going at a faster rate and seen 5psi by 2500 rpms

There is a LITTLE more power and can be a LITTLE faster at the track, mostly do to a bit of an increase in efficiency of the system. The biggest gain is on the street in the form a spool time. I went from a STS to my own built front mount and I will tell you, it's night and day difference on the street. MUCH faster too spool. I move the T60 I had on the STS/4.8 up under the hood with the front mount on the 4.8 and with that turbo, it hit like I had N2O on the truck, lol. MUCH fast spool time. Track and dyno results are very similar, cuz your make the same boost/power for the most part. It's just that with the front mount, it comes on a lot faster.

I think both are obviously proven setups.

I have yet to actually install a turbo kit so take my advice with a grain of salt.

I've read many many different opinions on the matter. I have owned an STS setup and am not building a front mount setup.

Here are some of the points I liked about a front mount setup which are positives for my situation:

1.) I hate the idea of having an electronically run oil pump. I've seen several fail that have also trashed the engine as well.

2.) I don't like the idea of the turbo being that low on the truck. I'm lowered 4/7 and it would worry me to have to drive like that in the rain. I've read where people use a snorkel setup, but that's still not fool proof.

3.)Lag time. Obviously the exhaust gases are traveling at a super fast rate, but that extra 7' or so is enough to make a difference.

4.) Simplicity. A front mount is about as basic as it gets. Pretty much every kit uses the old fashioned gravity oil flow setup which is for the most part dummy proof(unless you skimp on your lines).

There's several more points, most of which I don't know enough to touch on, but bottom line is that a front mount setup made more sense FOR ME.