My 5.3L into a Jeep Wrangler

So here's what i started with,

1993 Jeep Wrangler (YJ)
2.5L 4 cylinder (125ish HP)
5 Speed Manual
NP231 Transfercase (Aluminum chain drive)
Dana 35 rear axle (Stock) w/ factory 4.10 gears
Dana 30 front axle (Stock) w/ factory 4.10 gears

What i have to install
2000 GMC 5.3L Vortec V8
700r4 Auto transmission
NP208 transfercase (aluminum w/chain drive) i do have a Dana20 tcase (gear drive cast iron case) that will go in at a later date.
Corporate 14bolt rear axle shaved 1.5" for max rock clearance (cut 2" off the bottom of pig, weld on 1/2" plate, and turn ring gear down 1/4")
Dana 60 front axle both with factory 4.56 gears

Should be a fun toy in the end!!
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/6...jeepda0.th.jpg

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/2...ngermp5.th.jpg

Lovin' the BFH sittin' on the tire! :bash: They come in hella handy! :laugh:

I sent you a PM before I seen this thread. Once I get the pics & schematics, I'll just post in here for ya.

Holla! -Ron :thumb:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(1BADC10 &#064; Sep 22 2006, 06&#58;14 AM) [snapback]66057[/snapback]</div>

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Lovin&#39; the BFH sittin&#39; on the tire&#33; :bash: They come in hella handy&#33; :laugh:

I sent you a PM before I seen this thread. Once I get the pics & schematics, I&#39;ll just post in here for ya.

Holla&#33; -Ron :thumb:
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Sweetness...you gotta own a couple BFH&#39;s...you never know when you&#39;ll need one :-)

So I only threw up a couple pics, i didn&#39;t mention my current state.

I&#39;ve got the new drivetrain bolted together, and the motor mounts fabbed. The engine is bolted in and sitting all by itself&#33;&#33; The transmission mount howevere is still sitting on a jack, but that shouldn&#39;t take long once i modify the stock skid plate (belly pan). I ordered my fuel pump last night &#33; &#33; &#33; And should be in business sooner than i thought&#33;&#33; Thanks to this board and Ron&#33;

I&#39;ll post more pics when i get home after work (Central time)

That is going to be BADASS&#33;

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Red03SilSS &#064; Sep 22 2006, 06&#58;33 AM) [snapback]66060[/snapback]</div>

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That is going to be BADASS&#33;
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That&#39;s the goal....hoping to someday be able to roast all 4 tires on pavement....i think that&#39;d be sweet...we&#39;ll see what happens, i&#39;ve seen a guy do it with a 383 Stroker and 40" tall tires, i&#39;ll only be running 35" tall tires...

Its final resting place
http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/9051/53in1ia8.th.jpg

the MESS
http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/5...n110ln5.th.jpg

More
http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/9...in12nl5.th.jpg http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/6...in15xy3.th.jpg http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/472/53in13go5.th.jpg

Hey, Chuck... :bash: I&#39;m pretty sure these were somewhere in my thread. If not, here ya go&#33;
------------------------------
Here&#39;s the only wires I used from my OBS harness (even one or two of these weren&#39;t used):

Before
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c3...225/V8Swap.jpg

After
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c3.../OBSWiring.jpg

Fuse Block
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c3...kWiring002.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c3...kWiring001.jpg

Misc Wiring Schematics Used (References for 2000 Silverado)
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...0Connector.gif
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...Connector2.gif
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...data/4L60E.gif

I&#39;ve got access to more if needed. You&#39;ll need to have the fuse block pinouts. I&#39;ll have to email those (don&#39;t have electronic copies on file).

You are the man....you know that right?

nah... just a humble guy that&#39;ll try to help where I can.

So i added some text to one of your pics...is this right

and what is the Pink w/white wire?

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/2...harrowsag4.jpg

If memory serves, that would be my fuel pump... either the C3 or C4 connector views. Will have to check when I get home. At parents&#39; house working on computer.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(1BADC10 &#064; Sep 24 2006, 01&#58;23 PM) [snapback]66310[/snapback]</div>

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If memory serves, that would be my fuel pump... either the C3 or C4 connector views. Will have to check when I get home. At parents&#39; house working on computer.
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So the other three were labeled correctly?(ignition, battery 12v, and ground). Did you have to give anything else power?

Thanks so much&#33;&#33; Hope your computer fixing at the &#39;rents went well. And congrats on the addition to your family. My wife and i just had our first 3 1/2 month ago, a little girl, Izzi.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Chuck21387 &#064; Sep 22 2006, 09&#58;33 AM) [snapback]66081[/snapback]</div>

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Its final resting place
http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/9051/53in1ia8.th.jpg

the MESS
http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/5...n110ln5.th.jpg

More
http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/9...in12nl5.th.jpg http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/6...in15xy3.th.jpg http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/472/53in13go5.th.jpg
[/b]

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looking at this picture of the motor placement i hope that you move it back further. there is plenty of room for the factory belt driven fan and a thick aluminum radiator. dont forget that a wrangler engine sits off set to the passenger side 1.5" . the tunnel in the floor is that way also. hear is a pic of the last one i did.
6.0 lq4, 4l65e H2 trans, atlas II transfer case. and the rear driveshaft was still 3" longer than stock.
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i6...h/100_2299.jpg

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hummertech &#064; Sep 24 2006, 07&#58;45 PM) [snapback]66379[/snapback]</div>

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looking at this picture of the motor placement i hope that you move it back further. there is plenty of room for the factory belt driven fan and a thick aluminum radiator. dont forget that a wrangler engine sits off set to the passenger side 1.5" . the tunnel in the floor is that way also. hear is a pic of the last one i did.
6.0 lq4, 4l65e H2 trans, atlas II transfer case. and the rear driveshaft was still 3" longer than stock.
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i6...h/100_2299.jpg
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Thats part of my problem, i&#39;m currently running an NP208 (cause i can&#39;t afford the adapters to the Dana20) so my rear shaft is the same length currently, i&#39;ll have enough room for a 3 row radiator in the stock location (recessed in the grill) and still run the factory fan. :-) Nice looking swap.

So i&#39;m also gonna have to figure out something with a VSS huh?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Chuck21387 &#064; Sep 24 2006, 03&#58;25 PM) [snapback]66326[/snapback]</div>

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So the other three were labeled correctly?(ignition, battery 12v, and ground). Did you have to give anything else power?

Thanks so much&#33;&#33; Hope your computer fixing at the &#39;rents went well. And congrats on the addition to your family. My wife and i just had our first 3 1/2 month ago, a little girl, Izzi.
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If you&#39;re looking at the C1 connector, I believe you are correct. I hadn&#39;t had a chance to pull up ALLDATA last night (another after-hours PC support call). Since I lost a hard drive last week, all my saved schematics are gone. I&#39;ll download them yet again, and send them to you if needed. There&#39;s a lot of schematics, but only a few that you&#39;ll actually need.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(1BADC10 &#064; Sep 25 2006, 06&#58;07 AM) [snapback]66435[/snapback]</div>

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If you&#39;re looking at the C1 connector, I believe you are correct. I hadn&#39;t had a chance to pull up ALLDATA last night (another after-hours PC support call). Since I lost a hard drive last week, all my saved schematics are gone. I&#39;ll download them yet again, and send them to you if needed. There&#39;s a lot of schematics, but only a few that you&#39;ll actually need.
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Wow any help would be much appreciated (since i don&#39;t know much about schematics)

Now i need to look at my 700R4 tranny, i can convert it to VSS, it might already be VSS but being 4x4 and in a truck that had cable drive, i&#39;m pretty sure it&#39;s cabls drive off of the Transfer case. We&#39;ll see what we can do tonight&#33;

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Chuck21387 &#064; Sep 25 2006, 10&#58;00 AM) [snapback]66450[/snapback]</div>

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Now i need to look at my 700R4 tranny, i can convert it to VSS, it might already be VSS but being 4x4 and in a truck that had cable drive, i&#39;m pretty sure it&#39;s cabls drive off of the Transfer case. We&#39;ll see what we can do tonight&#33;
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That&#39;s a preference for ya. You can have cable driven with an adapter to convert the signal to an electrical pulse. Seems like I remember that someone posted something about that when I first started my project. Don&#39;t remember if it were on this board or not.

I&#39;m running back and forth while watching the Saints play against the Falcons. GO SAINTS&#33;&#33;&#33;

*edited* Check ya PMs. Sent ya something nice&#33; <--- Sorry, not a gift from my avatar&#33; :-P

NOW GET TO WORK&#33;&#33;&#33;

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Chuck21387 &#064; Sep 25 2006, 04&#58;12 AM) [snapback]66433[/snapback]</div>

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Thats part of my problem, i&#39;m currently running an NP208 (cause i can&#39;t afford the adapters to the Dana20) so my rear shaft is the same length currently, i&#39;ll have enough room for a 3 row radiator in the stock location (recessed in the grill) and still run the factory fan. :-) Nice looking swap.

So i&#39;m also gonna have to figure out something with a VSS huh?
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there is a way to short shaft the 208 case to make a longer driveshaft, but i cant remember the combo. that case was a short fixed yoke in either a dodge or ford, and can be hybrid together. the engine needs to be as far back as possible to keep the front axle out of the oil pan and make room for the exhaust to cross under the front of the pan to the right side. a 2" body lift makes all things easer when placing the engine. the right side manifold fits nicely arround the frame and lower part of the body. i didnt even cut the body. pluss it feels beter off road with the weight back futher in the chassis. they kind of get front heavy and scary going down hills.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(1BADC10 &#064; Sep 25 2006, 09&#58;09 PM) [snapback]66591[/snapback]</div>

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I&#39;m running back and forth while watching the Saints play against the Falcons. GO SAINTS&#33;&#33;&#33;

*edited* Check ya PMs. Sent ya something nice&#33; <--- Sorry, not a gift from my avatar&#33; :-P

NOW GET TO WORK&#33;&#33;&#33;
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Yeah, i can imagine it would pull you forward going downhill, i&#39;ll have to look into a Hybrid 208, thanks for the info&#33;

So i&#39;m down to 2 extra harnesses that i don&#39;t know what they go to. One i&#39;m sure is the Tranny, cause it&#39;s got the roundish tranny connector, it comes out of the drivers side of the plastic Vortec on the back side. And the other comes out for the back of the Vortec plastic on the passneter side, i think this might be for O2 sensors? Can someone take a picture of their O2 connectors? I looked at 1badC10&#39;s build and it shows an O2 sensor, but not the connector to the harness.

That would depend on year/model of the the donor vehicle. I think some model trucks have female connectors like f-bodies (not 100%). I say this b/c a buddy of mine gave me his old rear o2 sensors of his HD. His would not work on my truck b/c it was a male connector o2. All four of my o2 connectors (harness-side) are male. Physically, male to male won&#39;t work. (<--- and shouldn&#39;t work regarding human life, but that&#39;s another thread-starter) :twocents:

Anyhow... your o2 connectors should be square-shaped with four pins. Colors will vary, but I think it&#39;s something like 2 tans, 1 purple, and 1 brown. I&#39;ll have to check later today.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(1BADC10 &#064; Sep 27 2006, 12&#58;06 PM) [snapback]66814[/snapback]</div>

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That would depend on year/model of the the donor vehicle. I think some model trucks have female connectors like f-bodies (not 100%). I say this b/c a buddy of mine gave me his old rear o2 sensors of his HD. His would not work on my truck b/c it was a male connector o2. All four of my o2 connectors (harness-side) are male. Physically, male to male won&#39;t work. (<--- and shouldn&#39;t work regarding human life, but that&#39;s another thread-starter) :twocents:

Anyhow... your o2 connectors should be square-shaped with four pins. Colors will vary, but I think it&#39;s something like 2 tans, 1 purple, and 1 brown. I&#39;ll have to check later today.
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Holy crap...i&#39;ve gotta run 4 O2 sensors?&#33;?&#33;? that&#39;s rediculous&#33;&#33;

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Chuck21387 &#064; Sep 27 2006, 11&#58;28 AM) [snapback]66815[/snapback]</div>

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Holy crap...i&#39;ve gotta run 4 O2 sensors?&#33;?&#33;? that&#39;s rediculous&#33;&#33; [/b]

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Nope, you just have to run two. You can eliminate the rear O2 sensors with PCM programming and then delete the wires from your harness.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kwkenuf &#064; Sep 27 2006, 01&#58;31 PM) [snapback]66817[/snapback]</div>

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Nope, you just have to run two. You can eliminate the rear O2 sensors with PCM programming and then delete the wires from your harness.
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Correct-o-mundo&#33; :thumb:

Sweet...you guys are the greatest....working on getting my computer reprogrammed for free...we&#39;ll see how that goes...and i got my fuel pump this week and my radiator should be here soon...after the parts get here i can really start cranking on this thing

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(1BADC10 &#064; Sep 25 2006, 08&#58;40 PM) [snapback]66574[/snapback]</div>

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That&#39;s a preference for ya. You can have cable driven with an adapter to convert the signal to an electrical pulse. Seems like I remember that someone posted something about that when I first started my project. Don&#39;t remember if it were on this board or not.
[/b]

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So any idea where i can find said &#39;adapter&#39; for this? anybody?? Can i disable the VSS in the computer when i disable the VATS??

Not sure if you can (or would want to) disable the VSS. I would think you could order the adapter, bolt it in place, and tap your NBS harnes into the adapter&#39;s circuitry. I did a search on speed sensor conversion adapters when I first started, and didn&#39;t like the price or trouble of having to do this... so I bought all electric gauges. :laugh:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(1BADC10 &#064; Sep 29 2006, 11&#58;43 AM) [snapback]67158[/snapback]</div>

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Not sure if you can (or would want to) disable the VSS. I would think you could order the adapter, bolt it in place, and tap your NBS harnes into the adapter&#39;s circuitry. I did a search on speed sensor conversion adapters when I first started, and didn&#39;t like the price or trouble of having to do this... so I bought all electric gauges. :laugh:
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Hmmmmm the search conitinues...

Is this the adapter i need you think? Is the VSS just a 2 pulse?

http://static.summitracing.com/globa.../prf-60115.jpg

or i found this one too...4 pulse

http://www.motorpartscentral.com/Ima...less_60116.jpg

These both say that they&#39;re for the TPI or TBI systems...


Edit: oops...i think i need one of these....

1.623 RELUCTOR RING from
http://www.downeyoff-road.com/EngineCompon...eedSensors.html

http://www.downeyoff-road.com/images...eedsensor8.jpg

nobody knows if i can run the easy 4pulse adapter????

Looks simple enuff. What&#39;s the difference b/t the stock VSS vs that one? If stock is 4-pulse setup, take it and run. All the adapter does is report electronically what it sees to the PCM, with a mechanical output to the speedo, right?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(1BADC10 &#064; Oct 5 2006, 11&#58;22 AM) [snapback]67997[/snapback]</div>

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Looks simple enuff. What&#39;s the difference b/t the stock VSS vs that one? If stock is 4-pulse setup, take it and run. All the adapter does is report electronically what it sees to the PCM, with a mechanical output to the speedo, right?
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Right, but how do i find out if the stock VSS is a 4pulse read out? That&#39;s my problem...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Chuck21387 &#064; Oct 6 2006, 07&#58;02 AM) [snapback]68112[/snapback]</div>

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Right, but how do i find out if the stock VSS is a 4pulse read out? That&#39;s my problem...
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May seem like a long-shot, but call a GM Service or Parts Dept. If you call a Chevy dealer, and they don&#39;t have that info, call a GMC dealer. The two brands in my area have different catalogs. The Chevy guys have more info in their system. I&#39;ll check AllData to see if anything&#39;s listed (doubt it though).

Jags that Run makes a kit for an external reluctor ring.... aboiut &#036;75, Heres a pic I took from their VSS manual PDF,

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e3...threluctor.jpg

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kwkenuf &#064; Oct 10 2006, 10&#58;46 AM) [snapback]68674[/snapback]</div>

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Jags that Run makes a kit for an external reluctor ring.... aboiut &#036;75, Heres a pic I took from their VSS manual PDF,

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e3...threluctor.jpg
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Yup....i&#39;m gonna have a CNC shop cut me one to fit a 14bolt yoke though...should work if it i have to go that route...

I&#39;ll have to build a skid plate for it...but that&#39;s cool...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(1BADC10 &#064; Oct 6 2006, 11&#58;32 AM) [snapback]68153[/snapback]</div>

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May seem like a long-shot, but call a GM Service or Parts Dept. If you call a Chevy dealer, and they don&#39;t have that info, call a GMC dealer. The two brands in my area have different catalogs. The Chevy guys have more info in their system. I&#39;ll check AllData to see if anything&#39;s listed (doubt it though).
[/b]

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Well, turns out it takes the 40 pulse per shaft rotation reluctor ring thingy....so...i dunno what i&#39;m gonna do...anybody ever try tricking the PCM....hhhhmmm research research...

why do you need a speed sensor??? wont the engine run without it?? can it be programed out?? check
street&preformance
advanceadapters
if your looking for just a speed sensor to tell the computer that the car is moving i dont think it matters how many pulses it is, as long as it thinks it is moving. my 350 tbi flat fender doesnt have a speed sensor input. it runs just fine, pluss untill the computer sees speed input it wont look for egr or do emmission testing. i dont have a custom chip or any emmissions wired up and have never had a check engine light come on yet. people say that is is not up to full power untill it senses speed but i cant tell it runs dam good.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hummertech &#064; Oct 10 2006, 07&#58;57 PM) [snapback]68644[/snapback]</div>

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why do you need a speed sensor??? wont the engine run without it?? can it be programed out?? check
street&preformance
advanceadapters
if your looking for just a speed sensor to tell the computer that the car is moving i dont think it matters how many pulses it is, as long as it thinks it is moving. my 350 tbi flat fender doesnt have a speed sensor input. it runs just fine, pluss untill the computer sees speed input it wont look for egr or do emmission testing. i dont have a custom chip or any emmissions wired up and have never had a check engine light come on yet. people say that is is not up to full power untill it senses speed but i cant tell it runs dam good.
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Yeah, i think i&#39;m gonna try that route first...seems the cheapest...and i&#39;ve read that it can run up to 17% below full capabilities...so that&#39;s a big deal...i guess...but going from a 4cylinder to this V8 is gonna be such a huge difference that i won&#39;t notice 17%....although they also mentioned that it got about half as good of fuel mileage...because it shuts down fuel on deceleration...i dunno...i&#39;m just gonna try it...and i found a way better solution...someone made a ring to go on their pinion yoke, and it had 40 teeth, for the 40 pulses per single rotation it needs...then just hooked up a brakcket with the sensor in it and they were good to go...that way you don&#39;t have to tear out the tranny and press on the reluctor ring...if it doesn&#39;t work without the sensor (like yours is setup), then i&#39;m gonna hit the CAD and draw one up in 3d and send that file to my CNC guy and have him cut one...we&#39;ll see if it works &#33;