Wide band installation

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05-03-2006, 11:29 AM
farmtruc

Where to install a wideband on an STS equipped truck?

I've been calling a few places and the decision seems to be split.
On a typical setup, most manufacturers want the wide band installed after the turbo, but before the cats. That's pretty simple.
But on our trucks, the turbo is after the cats, therefore mounting the wideband sensor after the turbo, means mounting it after the cats.

After talking to a bunch of manufacturers yesterday, I'm still confused.
So, I guess I'll do my own research.

I have mine installed after the turbo on the tailpipe. Yesterday I installed another bung before the turbo but after the cats. I don't expect the a/f ratio readings to change much. Today I'll get another bung installed before the cats near the front O2 sensor.

So how do you know which reading is correct? Don't ask me, LOL.

I'll post my findings up this week and we'll see what a/f ratio reading is closest to what is expected.
I expect the readings from the O2 bung located before the cat (next to the front O2) to be more accurate.

I posted this because I've been telling ppl to mount their O2 bung after the tailpipe, which is what several manufacturers told me. BUT, I've been finding that my a/f ratio seems a bit lean during normal driving and idle. I'm guessing the irregular pulses of air and fuel are causing this, I don't know hahah. It does read solid at wot though.

I would guess if your truck doesn't have any cats, then the readings would be pretty much the same. I'm assuming the cats are messing with the a/f ratio as well.

I'll keep you posted,
allen
05-03-2006, 11:31 AM
GMCwantsLS1

Good information. I would bet that the cruise lean condition would be caused by the cats, but would think WOT would still be pretty close. JMO.
05-03-2006, 11:32 AM
chrisj6

I was told after the turbo, that comes from innovate's site, hptuners says after the turbo also. I wouldnt expect them to change much either, as long as there are no cats on the vehicle. BTW, i need a replacement wideband, do you sell those Allen?

Chris
05-03-2006, 12:01 PM
farmtruc

Innovate say after the turbo, but before the cats. That would work on a front mount setup.
I called Innovate and they were on the side that said: install the bung before the cats and before the turbo.
See how confusing it is, lol.

i sure don't, but check out innovate, they have all the accessories, I saw a sensor there too.

thanks,
allen
05-03-2006, 12:10 PM
chrisj6

Yeah in some ways they cant get their story straight, sort of like the wiring they tell you. I had to find a grounds system that worked myself, theirs was crap. I did see the sensor on their site, I am looking for the VW part that is around $30 cheaper.

Chris
05-03-2006, 06:48 PM
hrodgmc

I know with Syclones/GN's we always mounted them post turbo (pre cat) if anyone ever had a cat. Mounting them too close will result in a melted senor (NTK's are rated a little higher than Bosch) Leaking turbo seals can greatly affect AFR readings. Personally, I'd ask the sensor MFGS and go with their recommendations
05-03-2006, 07:21 PM
Tim Z

i installed mine according to NELSON PERF. directions ,!!! LOL 8 inches after the turbo. I too see lean readings while crusing, like high 14-s to 15.0. I ve Asked thisQuestion on LS1 TECH and everyone says after the turbo on there so i guess its o k. Keep us posted Allen. :thumb:
05-03-2006, 07:31 PM
GMCwantsLS1

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tim Z @ May 3 2006, 07:21 PM) [snapback]52015[/snapback]</div>

Quote:

i installed mine according to NELSON PERF. directions ,!!! LOL 8 inches after the turbo. I too see lean readings while crusing, like high 14-s to 15.0. I ve Asked thisQuestion on LS1 TECH and everyone says after the turbo on there so i guess its o k. Keep us posted Allen. :thumb:
[/b]

Same here!
05-03-2006, 10:38 PM
Motocycleguy

Yea that seems real confusing if you think about it... Dont know for sure but I would think the bung installed next to the front 02 sensor would be most accurate, Then verify with no cat?

Looking forward to your findings...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(chrisj6 @ May 3 2006, 11:10 AM) [snapback]51971[/snapback]</div>

Quote:

I am looking for the VW part that is around $30 cheaper.

Chris
[/b]

Did you check on that VW part number I gave you? You may want to bring the sensor to the VW dealer. There are two sensors 1 works and 1 dont. That part number was given to me by a friend who is running that as a replacment and is the part # on his reciept...
05-03-2006, 11:01 PM
chrisj6

yeah I am getting no luck on the part #, i found one for $62, but the rest of the time they are overseas sites and are about $115. I think I am just going to have to get the $62 unless I can find one cheaper. I might just go to a VW dealer tomorrow.

Chris
05-03-2006, 11:04 PM
farmtruc

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tyson @ May 3 2006, 09:38 PM) [snapback]52050[/snapback]</div>

Quote:

Did you check on that VW part number I gave you? You may want to bring the sensor to the VW dealer. There are two sensors 1 works and 1 dont. That part number was given to me by a friend who is running that as a replacment and is the part # on his reciept...
[/b]

Are you referrin to the PN in the manual for the LC1 kit? Or is there a different part number?

thanks,
allen
05-03-2006, 11:32 PM
Motocycleguy

No VW oem #0 258 007 057.... He sent me a msg via AIM mabey its a type o... I'll doubble check and post back.
05-04-2006, 10:59 AM
stssilverado

I have removed the cats from my truck. Wouldn't it make sense to use the bung where the old "post cat" sensor was. If they've been deleted from the PCM, they can be removed right? I dunno. Installing it this weekend. Let me know guys.
05-04-2006, 11:06 AM
chrisj6

Allen, apparently the LC-1 "part #" just refers to what type of sensor it is. It's the bosch lsu 4.2?? The part number given earlier in the post is the actual part number for that sensor. But when I give that number to VW dealers, they cant come up with anything. Although I have been able to find some sensors online wth the 7057 as the last 4 digits. I just need to make sure they are the right ones, they look exactly like my sensor, the plug has to match though.

Chris
05-04-2006, 09:20 PM
tenshikurai

I've never installed a wideband on a remote turbo setup, but I have seen very different readings before/after the cats on a standard turbo setup. Anything after the cats seems to be noticably leaner then before the cats, like 1.5 points leaner. That's what my LM-1 showed on a friends Evo8, and on my turbo Civic.
05-04-2006, 10:12 PM
chrisj6

Anything after the cats will not be anywhere near accurate. When tuning, your going to want it accurate as possible, if I am commanding 12.8 at WOT, I wanna see 12.8!

Chris
05-04-2006, 10:39 PM
farmtruc

Nothing with running a bit rich, at least it reads lean, which causes you to run it richer.
Not saying real rich is good, but at least...

I'll have something for you guys tomorrow maybe some track times with the new stall converter.
later,
05-05-2006, 03:04 PM
Tim Z

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(farmtruc @ May 4 2006, 11:39 PM) [snapback]52161[/snapback]</div>

Quote:

Nothing with running a bit rich, at least it reads lean, which causes you to run it richer.
Not saying real rich is good, but at least...

I'll have something for you guys tomorrow maybe some track times with the new stall converter.
later,
[/b]

i know what your saying, on the rich side is safe!! but maybe some one at STS would know about the best position for our sensors. Good luck at the track!! let us know what type of launch worked the best and if you were able to build boost off the line.
05-07-2006, 04:52 PM
chrisj6

Tyson, that is the exact part number on the sensor, i checked that today when I was recalibrating it, luckily, all it needed was a calibration! As for that part #, VW dealer said they had no match for it.

Allen, I was reading in my LC-1 manual, and it says this for turbo charged vehicles: "Install the bung downstream from the turbo before the catalytic converter. The high exhaust pressure before the turbo interferes with the lambda measurement and the high exhaust temperatures encountered there can damage the sensor."
05-09-2006, 10:34 PM
Motocycleguy

Yea sorry for the confusion, I finaly made it to my buddies house to look at his reciept. Thats the Bosch part number not the VW part number. On his reciept it said 0 258 007 057 VW1.8T and 2.8L VR6 Golf, Jetta and Turbo Beetle, VW part # 021-906-262-B
05-09-2006, 10:47 PM
chrisj6

yeah i saw that part number today in the manual.....but anywho.....back the f****r goes again.
05-09-2006, 11:41 PM
farmtruc

Ya, but the turbo and cat config is backwards. The turbo is after the cat.
Their recommendation is for a front mount turbo.

I called when I was investigating and they said before the cat on an sts turbo, we'll see though.

thanks,
allen
05-10-2006, 10:55 AM
foggy

I emailed STS which location and they said before the cat and either bank will work.
05-10-2006, 11:30 AM
chrisj6

Yoiu want to put it on your leanest bank, which i believe is bank one?

chris
05-22-2006, 08:47 PM
farmtruc

Just a quick update.

I relocated my wb before the turbo and no difference. I then moved it to the front of the cat, then it broke lol, so I've been to lazy to replace it.
I'll post when I change it out and collect some data.

allen
05-22-2006, 08:50 PM
chrisj6

Which WB are you using, if its the lc1 no surprise. Did you just fry the sensor?

Chris
05-22-2006, 11:03 PM
farmtruc

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(chrisj6 @ May 22 2006, 07:50 PM) [snapback]53839[/snapback]</div>

Quote:

Which WB are you using, if its the lc1 no surprise. Did you just fry the sensor?

Chris
[/b]

It was the AEM, the LC1 is actually working very well.

next update soon.

allen