need advice for top end rebuild

my 5.3 has been making some wicked valvetrain noise for quite a while now. i also notice that over the past year or so, the truck just doesn't seem to have the power that it used to have.
i was thinking about pulling the heads and getting them cleaned up, then go back together with all new parts (lifters, springs, etc.)

am i wrong in thinking that this will make a difference? with 200k on the engine, i think that it is just getting worn out. i use it to tow and do grunt work like that quite often.

anybody?

For the time and money you are about to spend, just buy another low mileage 5.3 block. Literally just swap your stuff over to it, and then run that. Those things are a dime a dozen

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Originally Posted by ducky

For the time and money you are about to spend, just buy another low mileage 5.3 block. Literally just swap your stuff over to it, and then run that. Those things are a dime a dozen

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x2

I vote total build up..... Cam, heads, and all the needed stuff

x3 on newer motor...why put heads, cam etc on a 200k mile motor? thats just gonna put more stress on the parts that are already worn out

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Originally Posted by chvy=power

x3 on newer motor...why put heads, cam etc on a 200k mile motor? thats just gonna put more stress on the parts that are already worn out

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Thats why you replace the parts that are wearing the most...I have 248k on mine. Just did a cam swap at the end of the year. Also swapped lifters, springs, pushrods, timing chain, and oil pump. The cylinder walls still had FACTORY CROSS HATCHING on them after 235k+ miles. These motors will last forever if you take care of them. Ill be adding a new set of heads as soon as I can to this thing too.

I guess its up to each person....there are a lot of people out there that will say its dumb to do it, get a new motor and so on. But at the same time there is no reason why you cant do it.

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Originally Posted by chvy=power

x3 on newer motor...why put heads, cam etc on a 200k mile motor? thats just gonna put more stress on the parts that are already worn out

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Guess it depends on how worn it is.... Like trav stated his truck has way over 200k miles the bottom end is prolly fine replacing the top end will most likely do the trick. I wouldn't have recommended less than replacing all the worn stuff. If he is going to pull the whole motor might as well swap in a 6.0 80e combo. I am sure his tranny isn't in the best of shape either.

low mileage 5.3 bare long block= apprx $300 maybe more maybe less... like ducky said they are a dime a dozen. That would be the way i would go just my .02

well i haven't planned on pulling the motor completely. i have a connection through my dad's shop that can get me good machine work and clean up on the heads for cheap, which is why i'm thinking on going this route. planned on keeping the cam in there too, so basically just the heads.
i recently pulled the oil pan and front cover and replaced the oil pump, timing chain, oil pan gasket, etc. and could see some of the cylinder walls up through the bottom, and what i could see still had factory cross hatching. not to mention when i'm cruising i still have well over 60psi oil pressure (idle never goes below 40) even with this 100+ degree weather we've had. this was the case with the old oil pump too.

this all leads me to believe that overall the motor is still in good shape.
tranny is untouched factory 4l60e. so i don't really want to go very far over factory level performance.

if this is what i do, what do i need to replace exactly. (sorry, i don't know alot about heads/valvetrains) i'm assuming lifters, pushrods, valve springs for sure. what about the valves themselves? or the rocker arms?

valves should be fine same goes for the rocker arms but dont forget to budget for some good bolts some ARP bolts would be an excellent investment since they can be reused if you ever want to pull them again.

Thanks for the help
I'm planning on getting this going pretty soon I hope. A couple more questions though

I was looking into swapping the cam while I've got it apart, but I have little knowledge on cams as far as measurements go.
I would like a pretty mild cam, one that I don't have to worry about a stall or tune or anything, not to mention my completely stock tranny.
What kind of options are there? Or would it not be worth it?

And second, when I get the machine work done, I thought about getting the heads milled a little, but again, I only know the theory behind It and don't know exactly how that is going to translate. I know it is supposed to raise the CR which would equal more power, but again, I don't want to have to worry about a tune or any of that. Would that be worth it?

Educate me

bump

anytime you start upping parts from factory spec's youre gonna need a tune to compensate for the gas consumption and the idle issues and air flow and all the other BS that comes with it, sounds like youre better off leaving what you have alone and just clean things up, you start milling heads to up the compression, putting in a MILD cam, then probably wanting other things done cause you noticed gains like headers lol, you'll end up needing a trans ;)

If you are looking for a somewhat mild cam a 220/220 is generally a very acceptable cam. It will give you good power without being over the top. Your right on the money about the heads if you get them milled it will raise the compression and give you more power. You will need different length push rods with this change. Depending on how extreme you go might have to run high octane all the time but if you keep it to 11:1 or lower you should be fine to just run premium pump gas although E85 is a fun alternative. I would say you should get it tuned no matter what cam or head changes you make. It will net improved gains and actually make it safer to run. I would recommend some kind of upgrade to your transmission which I am sure is getting tired by now. A corvette servo is simple to install and will cost in the neighborhood of 30$. A good cam and tune package will make your truck a whole new animal for sure. If you stay somewhat small you won't need a stall, but for the great deal you can get from Circle D might as well save your pennies and toss one in there. A cam and stall will help you hang with most people you will find on the street and eat rice all day long. You can still tow and DD with the right setup. Don't cheap out or wimp out most of the time you will regret it.

Nice little price list of things for you
Cam Kit (cam springs pushrods) $600-700ish
Circle D 3k stall $400
Corvette Servo $20
LS2 Timing Chain $30
Bolts and gaskets $150ish
Built Trans $1500ish
Performance Heads $500-2000

With a Cam swap you could see 50-100 rwhp gains depends on cam
With a Cam/head swap maybe 70-125 rwhp gains depending on cam/heads

right now my biggest thing is doing all this without hurting the tranny. while i do want to go fast (who doesn't) i'm more concerned with upping my overall power while still having it be my DD, and being able to tow well.

about the vette servo, i was under the impression that these made the trans shift harder/faster, which is why i thought it might not be the best idea.

and the stall, i was under the impression, made it harder to tow and haul heavy loads. i tow and haul quite a bit, from boats to cars etc. so i did not think the stall would be ok either.

i'm all for the tune, and plan on getting one soon, but i didn't want to do the upgrades and then be forced to get one before i could drive it, since it is my DD. my budget is...limited, to say the least. i was thinking my tune would come a little later. i was aware of the pushrods needing changed if i milled the heads, but i was concerned with driveability. i always run 91 anyway, but ive heard of high CR's not being well suited for street and DD driving. i read somewhere that as a rule of thumb, you could expect about 30hp for every .5 of CR you gained. so i was only thinking about upping it .5-1 point only (keeping the tranny in mind). is that a realistic expectation? i'm thinking i would do either the milling or the cam, but not both. so which one would be better suited for my app?
and i guess the vette servo too, if that would help keep the tranny a little safer.

what do you think?

ps, i wanna thank everyone for helping me get this all sorted out, especially kerrige. you've given me alot to think about, and been very helpful, without harshing on my lack of experience/knowledge. thanks

Your welcome gotta help where we can. I would be a little warry on keeping your current cam as I have seen the lobs start to wear at high mileage(bangbangskeetskeet's truck) So personally I go with the cam if I have to choose. I think there is no perfect rule of thumb on upping the compression ration. I think a cam will be more cost effective as head work gets expensive fast. I believe oleshifty or ssmidwest has a set of work heads for sale for $600. You will need a tune for it to run right with the cam and Nelson will send you a mail order tune just for your setup that should work just fine that you can install at the same time as the cam and keep it on the road. He also does free retunes if you make more changes down the road. Also one of the basic Circle D stalls will allow you to still tow no problem.

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Originally Posted by kerrige

Your welcome gotta help where we can. I would be a little warry on keeping your current cam as I have seen the lobs start to wear at high mileage(bangbangskeetskeet's truck) So personally I go with the cam if I have to choose. I think there is no perfect rule of thumb on upping the compression ration. I think a cam will be more cost effective as head work gets expensive fast. I believe oleshifty or ssmidwest has a set of work heads for sale for $600. You will need a tune for it to run right with the cam and Nelson will send you a mail order tune just for your setup that should work just fine that you can install at the same time as the cam and keep it on the road. He also does free retunes if you make more changes down the road. Also one of the basic Circle D stalls will allow you to still tow no problem.

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ok, if i go with the cam and decided to get a stall, what size should i go with? like 2500?
on a related note, what exactly does a stall do?

and with the mail tune, what should i expect to pay for that?

also, what about the lifters? could i just use factory style lifters with the cam swap?

and what about using a tranny cooler? would that make a difference in the amount of wear on the trans if i did end up adding some 30-50 hp?

Okay basically the issue with a cam is often it moves the torque curve up in the rpm range. Now a stock TC with lock up at about 1800rpm but a higher stall doesn't lock up until whatever range you get it stalled to meaning your in the power right off the bat instead of the lag that you may notice after a shift or off the line. I would say a 2600 stall is a little small but probably great for you application because the 300mm stall from Circle D will allow you to tow and give you a little more performance. The 278mm will allow for a higher stall rpm about 2800-3200 which will get you more into your power, but only allows you to tow about 4000lbs. I would recommend a trans cooler either way. Just keeps your tranny happier and lasting longer. The trucool 40k is like 180$ and very much worth it. Lots of guys like theirs a lot and it is good extra insurance. You are going to see extra wear, but with 200k its going out sooner or later and a built trans will be a great investment when the time comes. You should be okay for awhile no guarantees.

A tune from nelson is $300 which is about the going rate and he does good work also one day later down the road you could make a road trip and get a live tune in SA from him. Definitely a good choice working with him.

A good lifter to use are the LS7 lifters.

Some of these things you could also do a little bit at a time so you don't have to swallow the whole thing all at once. You could get a corvette servo, tranny cooler, and a NP tune first (since re-tunes are free and you pay shipping). Start getting the other parts a little at a time looking for good deals then do the cam swap and/or torque converter when you have got everything together and have time to decide exactly what combo you want. Also would allow you to save for some of the things you may want like a built trans. Just my 2 cents.

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Originally Posted by kerrige

Some of these things you could also do a little bit at a time so you don't have to swallow the whole thing all at once. You could get a corvette servo, tranny cooler, and a NP tune first (since re-tunes are free and you pay shipping). Start getting the other parts a little at a time looking for good deals then do the cam swap and/or torque converter when you have got everything together and have time to decide exactly what combo you want. Also would allow you to save for some of the things you may want like a built trans. Just my 2 cents.

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this is what i'm thinking. i was doing some more reading earlier, and i think that i am going to wait til i can get a performabuilt or comparable transmission in there. again, thanks for all the help.
i'm gonna definitely do my research and make sure that everything is the way i want it before i commit to anything. i may even just go ahead with a new(er) 5.3 or 6.0 swap. something i wouldn't be afraid to start packing on the power later down the road.

i like your idea about to trans cooler, servo, and tune first though. even with new engine and tranny, all of that can be used again.

thanks

Might want to think about an 80e swap especially if you do a lot of towing. For about 2k you could have yourself a LQ4 and 80e that will give you power and reliability. Won't have to worry about an 80e dying on you until you really up the power :thumb:
This is an addiction and it can really get outta hand fast :lol:

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Originally Posted by kerrige

Might want to think about an 80e swap especially if you do a lot of towing. For about 2k you could have yourself a LQ4 and 80e that will give you power and reliability. Won't have to worry about an 80e dying on you until you really up the power :thumb:
This is an addiction and it can really get outta hand fast :lol:

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just curious, if i was to look around for a 6.0 and 80e, what's the best way to do it? i think most people just get them out of yards, but my dad has used them before and says its kinda a gamble on whether or not you get a good set. is there some way to shop for them to know your getting a decent motor, or is there a specific type of junkyard to look at or what?

Lots of people with good luck on LKQ also look around on the forums and of course junkyards are a good place but your going to want to try and use ones which have a guarantee on their parts. These motors are pretty solid though you shouldn't have to roll the dice too bad. Depends on what you can find, a few years ago it was a lot easier, but now it is such a popular swap that these motors are a little more difficult to find and have a higher price tag. You shouldn't pay more than 2k for the combo as long as the miles aren't super low. Also try and get a 2001 or newer if you can due to the fact that the older models had a longer crank issue.

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Originally Posted by kerrige

Lots of people with good luck on LKQ also look around on the forums and of course junkyards are a good place but your going to want to try and use ones which have a guarantee on their parts. These motors are pretty solid though you shouldn't have to roll the dice too bad. Depends on what you can find, a few years ago it was a lot easier, but now it is such a popular swap that these motors are a little more difficult to find and have a higher price tag. You shouldn't pay more than 2k for the combo as long as the miles aren't super low. Also try and get a 2001 or newer if you can due to the fact that the older models had a longer crank issue.

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ok, thanks for the heads up. i figure if i can save my extra dough through the end of the year, i should be good to start a late winter project :thumb:

i'll definitely be asking more questions, and doing my homework in the mean time.