6.0 build and tranny questions

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12-01-2009, 10:22 PM
ososlow1

6.0 build and tranny questions

Ok I'm new here and need a little advice on my project. I have a 6.0L engine that needs a rebuild.(high milage) I'll be removing my 5.3L and replacing it with the 6.0L. I have a set of TSP Stage 2.5 317 heads (thanks Virgil) and will be installing the new FAST™ LSXRT™102mm Intake Manifold with a BBK 90mm T/B. I'm looking to build this engine as a daily driver so reliablity and cost are my prime concern. I was going to go with replacement cast pistons and just a general rebuild on the short block. I'd like some recommendations on a camshaft choice (was thinking about the chevy hot cam) but would like to retain my stock converter for towing. I currently have a 100hp NX kit with all the trimmings, 4/10 gears with auburn diff., shorty headers and KN cold air intake.
Now the tranny question......I have a 4L60E with the push button towing feature for the tranny. Do all trannies have this feature or do i need to take special care with this type.
12-01-2009, 10:24 PM
WARLOCK

Ull prolly want to do an 80e swap my friend. That 60e wont last long behind your 6.0
12-02-2009, 07:32 PM
ososlow1

Yeah Warlock i was going to do that at a later date but after reading a few comments from here i guess it will be sooner than later.
I have a rcsb so i guess i would need a shorten drive shaft for that swap?
12-03-2009, 01:43 AM
ff_jeff

IMO you can keep the stock stall, and weather you have a medium cam or a stocker, you can still tow. If your droppin coin on a fast and heads, might as well have a pro spec you a cam for your needs. I have heard good things about Patrick G. Most people play lawn darts with cam choice.
12-03-2009, 10:11 PM
ososlow1

Thank's , How would i contact this Patrick G.
12-03-2009, 10:24 PM
skeet

Quote:

Originally Posted by ososlow1

Thank's , How would i contact this Patrick G.

go to ls1tech or performancetrucks.net and search patrick g you'll find him

or google

Guerra Motorsports Custom Camshaft Recommendation

ahh hell here ya go

Camshaft Help-LS1 Custom Cams-Guerra Motorsports-Patrick G cams
12-05-2009, 03:31 AM
ososlow1

Damn Skeet thanks!!!!!!!!!
12-08-2009, 02:04 AM
txarkitekt

Quote:

Originally Posted by ososlow1

...I was going to go with replacement cast pistons and just a general rebuild on the short block...

Ok, well get the LQ9 pistons then. Trust me. You'll thank me later.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ososlow1

...II'd like some recommendations on a camshaft choice (was thinking about the chevy hot cam) but would like to retain my stock converter for towing...

212/218 .559/.551 116 LSA. The GMPP Hot Cam would not be a wise choice for towing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WARLOCK

Ull prolly want to do an 80e swap my friend. That 60e wont last long behind your 6.0

+1.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ff_jeff

...Most people play lawn darts with cam choice.

Yeah, if you are an idiot. :D
12-08-2009, 07:54 AM
ff_jeff

Quote:

Originally Posted by txarkitekt

Ok, well get the LQ9 pistons then. Trust me. You'll thank me later.

212/218 .559/.551 116 LSA. The GMPP Hot Cam would not be a wise choice for towing.

+1.

Yeah, if you are an idiot. :D

Then spec him a cam Tyler.
12-08-2009, 11:12 AM
txarkitekt

Quote:

Originally Posted by ff_jeff

Then spec him a cam Tyler.

Awwwww Jeffy... :melissa:

I did. :greg:
12-08-2009, 12:33 PM
ff_jeff

Quote:

Originally Posted by txarkitekt

I did. :greg:

What were the specs? :)
12-08-2009, 01:28 PM
txarkitekt

Quote:

Originally Posted by txarkitekt

...212/218 .559/.551 116 LSA...

Quote:

Originally Posted by ff_jeff

What were the specs? :)

Look in my original post in this thread AND in the post you quoted of me. :ugh2:

When they educated you down there in South Texas :badteef:, they forget to teach you how to read???? :haw:
12-08-2009, 04:44 PM
ff_jeff

Quote:

Originally Posted by txarkitekt

Look in my original post in this thread AND in the post you quoted of me. :ugh2:

When they educated you down there in South Texas :badteef:, they forget to teach you how to read???? :haw:

Im edjumakadid. And I read your numbers. But why did you pick them? They just seemed random. Hince why I asked you again. is there a method that you used? Do you have a calculator? You think with heads and a fast intake those numbers would be best?
Im just curious on how you picked those numbers. Because The only way I know how is to look at dyno numbers and setups other people have. Havent seen any setups like his.
12-08-2009, 06:12 PM
txarkitekt

Quote:

Originally Posted by ff_jeff

Im edjumakadid. And I read your numbers. But why did you pick them? They just seemed random. Hince why I asked you again. is there a method that you used? Do you have a calculator? You think with heads and a fast intake those numbers would be best?
Im just curious on how you picked those numbers. Because The only way I know how is to look at dyno numbers and setups other people have. Havent seen any setups like his.

LOL...just messing Jeff. The numbers I picked are FAR from random and getting specs on a cam is not something to be used by a calculator.

You have to consider all of the contributing factors:
--motor type, size, etc
--head type, size, etc
--intake type, size, etc
--exhaust type, size, etc
--bolton types, sizes, etc
--driver's goals and wants for power

This guy wants low end power from a decently rebuilt/refreshed 6.0L and by using the stock converter. He has a lead on the intake side of things with his CAI, 90mm TB, the fantastic LSXRT intake manifold, and Stage 2.5 317 heads. He is decent with the exhaust by having the shorty headers which allow for better power in the low and mid RPM range. If he gets the LQ9 pistons, that will help even more.

By knowing these motors and the mods, 212/218 .559/.551 116 LSA is the cam I thought would work well for his truck and his goals.

I could type for hours on the methods I used to debate this argument, so I will save it for another time. If you really wanna know, call me!
12-08-2009, 06:34 PM
ff_jeff

:LOL: Nah man. The reason I told him to go with Patrick G is because he is the only person I know that has a formula for picking a camshaft. And its proven. I pick cams the same way you do. Educated guess. And thats how most people do it. (lawn darts) Yes I take in consideration all those other things as well. And from what I have read, and learned, my guess for his need would be
something in the area of 226/222 .605/.600 with a 112lsa. Or if he wanted a sleeper cam a 215/230 .601/.580 117 lsa. Both make power all over the band, the sleeper/ cheatr type cams would have better average hp. OP said he wanted to tow, he didnt say he wanted low end though, and keep a stock stall. You can tow with almost any size cam. And also with an aftermarket stall. Most say 3k rpms is about as much as you should go.
Not that your guess is wrong or mine isnt... but still a guess.

OP you should read and learn if you wanna pick it your self. *** Cam Guide *** - LS1TECH is a good read. Basic stuff.
But IMO for $25 a guy that has been proven to spec cams that make more power than OTS cams is a good deal.
12-08-2009, 10:48 PM
txarkitekt

Quote:

Originally Posted by ff_jeff

:LOL: Nah man. The reason I told him to go with Patrick G is because he is the only person I know that has a formula for picking a camshaft. And its proven.

I have heard of Pat Guerra and I know he has spec'd out some very proven cams. He's been doing it a lot longer than I have and has thousands of satisfied customers. But has he figured out a mathematical formula for the LS type motors with the Stage 2.5 317s, LSXRT intake mani, 4.10 gears, a stock converter, and a 4L60e? Does he even have a theorem on how to calculate all of it using vehicle weight, wheelbase, and the 15 degree angle of the 317 valves that have been upgraded to a larger size? I highly doubt it. If there is, I would like to see it--not to steal his prized formula, just for him to prove its worth. I know that there is some truth in using mathematical formulas for finding PTV, ci, cc, etc, but not for a cam. Unless he has an entire library of flow numbers for every possibly conceived motor/head/intake combo, then there isn't a mathematical equation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ff_jeff

I pick cams the same way you do. Educated guess. And thats how most people do it. (lawn darts) Yes I take in consideration all those other things as well. And from what I have read, and learned, my guess for his need would be
something in the area of 226/222 .605/.600 with a 112lsa. Or if he wanted a sleeper cam a 215/230 .601/.580 117 lsa...

Not to rain on your parade, but your cam specs sound way out of the range for what this guy is wanting. 226/220 duration split; .605/.600 lift on a 112 LSA? Come on. Sure, the LSXRT can handle high amounts of an intake air charge, but .605/.600 lift at 112 LSA will put the powerband higher than where this guy wants it to be. You sound like you are spec'ing a cam for a fully bolted-on F-body with an M6. We are talking about a truck that weighs A LOT more and is running a stock verter on a 60e. Do you have any concept of when you need to have the valve events open and close to get a larger amount of air in so that the power is made at a lower rpm? Jeff, Jeff, Jeff. There is much more to spec'ing cams than seeing other cams that people laud about over the Interwebz.

I am not saying a 112 LSA is not in this guy's future (which would be sweet because it would sound nasty), but if you want a 112 LSA, you will need to have the ICL ground 2-3 degrees in advance over the LSA. And with that being said, the .60X lift numbers are also going to be out of the "equation." Then we need to talk about the lobe design on the intake AND exhaust side. In your cam specs--to get a .605 lift from 226 duration, you'd be looking at an LSL type cam lobe design which would have ramp rates to high and violent for what this guy needs. Sure, my cam specs are a little conservative to the "lawn dart" guy--but with the fact that he is running a 364ci motor with Stage 2.5 317s and the LSXRT intake with 90mm TB, that motor is going to make more out of that cam than, lets say, a stock-ish 5.3L would.

But yeah--spending the $25 on Pat G to spec something is not a bad option.

P.S. If it was MY truck, I'd go a little larger with a 222/232 .563/.572 113 +3 cam. :burnrub:
12-08-2009, 11:23 PM
skeet

Quote:

Originally Posted by ososlow1

Damn Skeet thanks!!!!!!!!!

more than welcome ;)

quote: I have heard of Pat Guerra and I know he has spec'd out some very proven cams. He's been doing it a lot longer than I have and has thousands of satisfied customers. But has he figured out a mathematical formula for the LS type motors with the Stage 2.5 317s, LSXRT intake mani, 4.10 gears, a stock converter, and a 4L60e? Does he even have a theorem on how to calculate all of it using vehicle weight, wheelbase, and the 15 degree angle of the 317 valves that have been upgraded to a larger size? I highly doubt it. If there is, I would like to see it--not to steal his prized formula, just for him to prove its worth. I know that there is some truth in using mathematical formulas for finding PTV, ci, cc, etc, but not for a cam. Unless he has an entire library of flow numbers for every possibly conceived motor/head/intake combo, then there isn't a mathematical equation.

unquote:

i hate to tell ya my friend but i gave him all this info when he spected my cam out,

every bit of info i could think of and some, from vechicle weight to hollow stem valves even the valve size, from the short block to the rearend ;)

he will ask for it all..

even told me the cam he spected for me, once it was said and done, i would be limited on anything bigger and better cause of my bore size being only 4" cause of the l92 heads, but it was spected for the strip and street and he may have one more in mind for strictly strip, thus is why i mention sometimes about doing a cam change ;)
12-09-2009, 12:21 AM
txarkitekt

Quote:

Originally Posted by skeet

i hate to tell ya my friend but i gave him all this info when he spected my cam out,

every bit of info i could think of and some, from vechicle weight to hollow stem valves even the valve size, from the short block to the rearend ;)

he will ask for it all..

Well, I'd hope he'd ask for that!!!! But what I am saying is I doubt he has a mathematical formula. He is using his vast knowledge of many, many contributing factors.

Quote:

Originally Posted by skeet

even told me the cam he spected for me, once it was said and done, i would be limited on anything bigger and better cause of my bore size being only 4" cause of the l92 heads, but it was spected for the strip and street and he may have one more in mind for strictly strip, thus is why i mention sometimes about doing a cam change ;)

Yeah, of course. If I spec'd a cam for someone and they went larger with ANYTHING--bore, stroke, heads, etc--then I would have new specs for him too. That is a no brainer.

Guys--don't take this the wrong way...I have read thousands of his (Pat G) posts and I know that he is VERY good at what he does. I am just questioning whether he uses a preset mathematical formula for a cam.
12-09-2009, 04:31 AM
ff_jeff

I love you tyler. :ma:
Dont worry homie, Ill call you tomorrow.
OP when Pat G specs you a cam, would you be so kind as to post specs? Or at least a round about? like 22x/22x .6xx/.6xx
12-09-2009, 08:18 PM
ososlow1

Thank's for all the good info. guy's, i really aspirate it.:thanks:
Well after talking to some of the guy's that are doing the rebuild i was advised to use forged pistons. Is there a certain type or brand of forged pistons that works better than others and would floating wrist pins be worth the expenses. Also after reading some comments posted here i might go with a mild torque converter if it wouldn't interfere with mild towing jobs.
12-09-2009, 10:26 PM
txarkitekt

Quote:

Originally Posted by ff_jeff

I love you tyler. :ma:
Dont worry homie, Ill call you tomorrow.
OP when Pat G specs you a cam, would you be so kind as to post specs? Or at least a round about? like 22x/22x .6xx/.6xx

No worries man. But you are such a funny girl Jeff!!!! You want to know his cam specs to see if your "lawn darts" hit the target or not... :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ososlow1

Thank's for all the good info. guy's, i really aspirate it.:thanks:
Well after talking to some of the guy's that are doing the rebuild i was advised to use forged pistons. Is there a certain type or brand of forged pistons that works better than others and would floating wrist pins be worth the expenses. Also after reading some comments posted here i might go with a mild torque converter if it wouldn't interfere with mild towing jobs.

WELL...when it comes to pistons, there are several--Wiseco, Diamond, Mahle, Manley, etc. If you are going forged pistons, its a worthwhile option to go with floating pins. Smoother operation and longer life don't hurt. :thumb:

Oh, so NOW he wants a converter... :D