no need for name calling
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no need for name calling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quik
If there was no union the top performers would get top pay. You cannot compared apples to oranges when the unions are still in power. Without them competition rules.
agreedQuote:
Originally Posted by Quik
Yup no unions in the oil field. We make it just fine with out them. Its either bust your ass or you will or some one else will bust theirs to and get your job.
Yep the way it should be , sink or swim , so to say .Quote:
Originally Posted by murdered_outgmc
Just think of it this way , just the UAW adds $1,500 to a auto per year , then there is the other unions that are part of the parts vendors , stock warehouses , so on and so forth , so the actual cost per year added to a auto by unions is about $5,500 , get the picture , without unions the prices could be competitive .
If you buy Toyota , Nissan , or Honda you are truly helping Americans , they say the money goes overseas , and who do you think owns USA anyways , we are just paying back the loans it took to fund the UAW , the UAW has taken more money from the Chinese , Japanese , and Russians in the name of keeping a UAW union alive , than any politician could sell out America .
The UAW sold us out a long time ago !
look where you live and look where i live. thats why i stated the electricians make 15hr for non union. Cost of livingQuote:
Originally Posted by DBTBSS
I did go to school and got an education. I have my Degree and not many credits away from my engineering degree either. I still dont see a desk jockey doing nothing more then internet surfing. But then again a desk jockey thinks a Skill labor job shouldnt get paid what a desk jockey does.
yes times have changed and it has gotten us no where in this world today. They all wanted us to believe in this BS plan of 401k instead of a pension for most. They want you to put money away and invest in a BS stock market. Pensions should be there for workers that spent their entire life commited to a company but today you got a bunch of no heart workers. Majority of ppl arent in it for the job they are in it for their hours and thats it.
without unions you would have favortism. I could out work you everyday of week [speaking in reference of point] but cause you love to gobble the current boss's **** you are now paid more then me and get the better jobs. is that fair to me? NO. union world we would get paid the same and treated the same. So you blowing some tubesteak just gets youpointed out of the crowd...youre usually the talk of the show when youre not around.Quote:
Originally Posted by GasGuzzler
:popcorn:
sink or swim you say? how about the old fellows that worked there 35yrs and have 2 more years to retire? so youre going to crapshoot him so you can bring in a young worker?Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevy366
what about this mans family? what about all the years he put in? how about the training he provided for the others over the years? why should this man lose his job? UNIONS PROTECH THIS!!!!!!
This generation is all about ME....sorry ME is only going to be the end
Keep the language clean here, guys.
:brushing teeth: :lol:
idk about the old people quik if they have been doing there job right working hard shouldn't they have been promoted by now........
there's plenty of "old" guys working in the oil field they are more protected than the kid that's a high school drop out and signed on a year ago to work floors, those kids arnt around anymore, well except me :D
The unions, yes can swing both ways. No matter how the system works, you've got bloodsuckers, and people who can work the system. Most unions this side of the us, you don't make much more than what you make working non union, except you've got to pay the dues, so in reality, in the northwest, there is no benefit working a UAW job. I don't really remember what it was, but I believe its like 15% of your paycheck goes to a union..so they just have to get you to make 15% more than everyone else, so they can get it.
I will also agree that, unions, can help. Especially with the old guy who has been busting their end for 35 years, to not be replaced by some guys nephew. But now if that guy has been there 35 years of just kissing up, yeah by all means fire that guy, get ride of him, but the union might keep that from happening.
But like everything, it can go both ways, it helps some, it screws some. Some work honestly get nothing, some work the system, and get farther than the honest person.
this video is best way to sum it up YouTube - Shuttin Dretoit Down Music VideoQuote:
Originally Posted by 408.Luke
not every company allows promotion from within...alot higher outside the company with younger personal that think to cut the senior guys to make up for outcosts of company.
how can a crew of say 20 35+ years seniors all get promoted? its not going to happen. they way some of you think is once you cant do your job as you once did 20yrs ago then you need to be tossed aside like old meat. Sorry the seniors are what gave us the opportunity to be working today
Back on topic now... can we change this thread title form GM is dying to UAW Union is dying. GM will live on!!! And for ME, I can retire at age 43:D... 13 to go:dancenana:
And really a person fresh from college has not purpose or reason being in a head position like that, or even someone younger than 30, unless they've got good reason, and some real good experience. I can see how that can cause issue, and a reason maybe a union in that case would have prevented that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quik
I'm thankful to work for a non union business, that actually hires from inside, then goes out from their. Where I work, its a huge business, but they keep it reasonable, so there is no fear of someone losing their job because they hired to many people, because they were required to hire so many, or have a certain amount of women, men, black, and white working. Though that really gets away from the union thing...
That works, just change the subject to get it back on topic :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by DBTBSS
Yeah, GM will probably pull through. At least one could hope that is.
give you and example.....Sheetmetal workers union which im in process of. The first year appentice makes 45k that is with benefit package. he isnt making 45 hr, he is making 13.5 hour but the rest is what is ticket is worth. his benefits are coverd and other expenses.Quote:
Originally Posted by mnc2fan
non union sheet metal worker is making 8.50 -10.0 out of school then he has to pay his part of his own benefits and etc
i went thru this when i was doing electrical. first year non union apprentice/helper as some call it i was offerd 8.50 hour and then they took benefits out. i had to do my electrical job and still work my old job as delieverly driver just to make ends meet. I made more and hour delievering pizzas [tips,wages together] so i could get my time in. Later did i realize that i was capped at 13hr. next step was foreman and no one is going to make a early 20s a foreman. most foremans were late 30s into 40s and that was 15 hr some made a few bucks more but average is 15.
i jumped shipped and started doing union plant work...i was paid very good money, i busted my arse and others slacked off. i hated this but then realize management was the fault not the most of the workers fault. yes you have to pay dues but what is 60-100 bucks a month when your making 5k a month?
also ive came to realize that non-union workers dont always want to show you the ropes as a young up/coming worker. they are afraid if they teach you then they can be replaced by you since you make less money. with the union they dont mind to teach you since others have taught them. if they teach you then you can help them get the job done......again the word ME stands out.....always about ME
I like that example. You've been on both ends, busted hump at both, and was only really getting paid what it takes when you joined the union. Give an equal opportunity. I can easily thank unions for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quik
I respect the high ups when they don't need a union to be able to do that in the first place though. Some jobs work a lot better with unions, so it doesn't make a difference, and some again don't need them.
Seems like the skilled jobs it keeps things fair having union, I would think where problems arise from a union are the places that don't need them. Either unskilled labor, like a grocery store (non-skilled)not needed,and of course the rail road companies(skilled) I see its needed. Rail Road companies, if the management is not fair those guys busting hump won't get the fair pay. A grocery store no, sure its work, but you don't need a union for that, work or go home. Things in that store are always several bucks more expensive over anyone else. Fred Meyers if you're wondering.
If I was going for skilled labor jobs, unless I know of a place that will be fair to me without union, I would much rather work union. Any other type of work, I don't want to work for a union.
Age, I don't feel its a limit, if you can do your job, and do it well, age shouldn't be a reason to be let go. I know I wouldn't let a person go just because they were to old to do the job, if something were to happen, me personally, would let them retire early, with the same benefits. For me, working with whatever I would be doing, I wouldn't need the union to keep it fair. I'd pay you right.
Drinking too much union koolaid poisons the brain IMO. I'm so glad I live in Texas and dont have to deal with that mentality, at least not at the Oil company where I work. My pay, my benefits, my lot in life is a function of me and my effort alone. I don't need help from the government and I dont need help from any union. Each to there own I guess.
Me working hard pays My bills, not someone else...
Would be nice if the whole world worked like that, work well live well. It used to be that way.
I'm glad there are employers that have been in the low part, busting ass not making much, to get to a point and higher people and pay them well if they work well.
I, like lots on here, have a job, and don't have to depend on anyone else, but me, to get my pay check. And don't have to worry about any one just cutting the rope, because I work like I should and I don't need to be replaced by someone to work better than me.
Bro to be as smart as you appear , but spout such foolish statements is appalling .Quote:
Originally Posted by Quik
If a guy works 35 years and has not made a place for himself in a company , he needs to be fired !
Unions are the scabs on America , the sooner we peel them off and let the wounds heal the better America will be , you can quote me on that ! If the Unions are so powerful why did the American public have to give them Billions ? Because they needed money for their retirement program and wanted us to fund it .
I do believe that GM will emerge (Hussein , UAW motors) , but to last the UAW has to go , for most will boycott GM for being UAW , American consumers are tired of the UAW .
Agreed on that point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevy366
^^^And that's why American consumers went out and started buying "foreign", the UAW caused this plain and simple. America is not going to put up with that crap forever. Quik, I'm not sure if you are just arguing for the Unions sake or just arguing to argue? If you really are that pro Union you need to think outside the box and value yourself as an American citizen more, cause they have you brain washed! It's to the point where it's not an opinion anymore, it's the facts. I agree with you on buy American 100% and try to live by it also.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevy366
thank you!!i dont give a crap about unions or uaw 's ,whatever yall are talking about, i dont understand it lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by DBTBSS
a mod should just lock this already...wanted to talk about GM,not some other crap.its just getting out of hand.
yes this has gone way off topic but YOU SHOULD CARE! this is your country you live here you should know whats going on here and why so u can make informed decisions about who to vote for and so on and so forth.Quote:
Originally Posted by STUNNA
Well Hummer is leaving the flock.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/03/bu...l?ref=business
elections are over
Someone needs to tell Obama, from all the press conferences and tripsQuote:
Originally Posted by STUNNA
he's making I think he still thinks he's campaigning.
i am sorry but that is the single most dumbest thing ever "oh lets just stop caring" and that is a big part of our problem, have you ever emailed a state Representative and urge them to vote or not vote against something??? being an American is a 24/7 job every day of the yearQuote:
Originally Posted by STUNNA
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by r.barn
If you guys get time you really should read this article from Fortune magazine.
Where GM went wrong: Let me count the ways - Nov. 24, 2008
read that yesterday^^
and now you are turning this into political crap.no one is going to care about an e-mail.
:giveup:Quote:
Originally Posted by STUNNA
lmfao and f.y.i i do care,or else i wouldnt have made this thread.
some guys just know more than others:blahblah:and yall made this go to ****.
yall can keep going at it,i giveup lol
That was a good article...glad I spent 10min reading it..Quote:
Originally Posted by 1320
You say favoritism and I say competition. They're the same thing with different connotations but both are good.
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by GasGuzzler
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by murdered_outgmc
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by DBRODS
I actually glad this topic was started cause it gives the chance for both sides to speak.
But I do feel like I am living back in the 1860's near the Civil War times. It reiterates the reason why the Union split in the first place. Greedy, money hungry, Big Business Northerners and the bust-your-arse-to-make-your-own-living Southerners were butting heads over things.
I am not saying there aren't corrupt money gluttons down here in the South--cause there are--but we don't operate on the Union principles for a reason. Guys, unless you missed the memo, this is a dog-eat-dog world. The Unions were set up to protect this and to create mediocrity. Its like playing a game where everyone is a winner and receives the same accolades. And why is it? Cause some clown got butthurt cause they didn't bust their butt enough to win. Waaa Waaa. So what? Its like the mentality of guys on here who have a slower truck who get beat in a race. Why'd you get beat? Hmmm?
I am not from a Union based family. My family tree is branched (mainly from up North) with hard working Americans who chased the American Dream. There was no mentality instilled within me to work just to work...and to become another drone to join a group that says you should get what everyone else gets. That is not what our country was founded upon.
Even though I didn't have to work when I was younger, I wanted to. I wanted to build something for myself. I started at the age of 13 mowing yards, pulling the mower down the street on my bike. I ended up building my business to have 3 fully loaded trucks/trailers running 6 days a week with 5 employees...all by word of mouth cause I offered a good service. I competed with other big companies to win customers. Did I feel the need for me to gain business or want to gain the advantages the other companies had just because I was in the same business? No. Did I complain and whine when the seasons changed and work slowed? No. Did I think that I deserved the pay and benefits of the larger companies even though I wasn't getting any of it? No. I just went off and offered services that could be done in the dormant seasons. If I was a Union worker, I would have leached off the other companies within my business sector and received the benefits. I believe that is 10000% WRONG. Either poop or get off the toilet. Just because you are sitting on the porcelain throne doesn't mean you can reap the benefits of shooting out a turd.
Like what was said earlier, its a sink or swim world. If you are not good at one thing, do something you ARE good at. Don't complain because you are not getting the same pay and benefits of others in your field. If you want the same as others who are more profitable--get off your arse and do what it takes to get there. It all relates back to Darwinism. Its a fact of life.
Nailed it Tyler. Sure you can hang off other's coat tails and coast through a mediocre life but what good does that do? When I do have a job I bust my ass and usually pull at least 65 hours a week if I can, to me that's the only honest way to get anywhere.
ever thought that you were the ones that are brain washed? i was on both sides of the fence. i seen how non-union was and seen how union was. Its much better on the union side. Alot more opportuntiesQuote:
Originally Posted by DBTBSS
Fact is im not going to back down on this arguement when there are alot of ppl that have no idea about the union side and only hear or read what ppl say. Once you are actually part of the union you would see differences
Hey thanks for starting the thread Zach!
I know these forums aren’t supposed to be political, but sometimes I feel we Americans have become so complacent we are more interested in our pop culture than we are our political culture. Hell, more people who voted in the last presidential election could name more American idol contestants than state representatives. It’s nice to see you folks are passionate about more than just material goods.
Remember …… America is not a democracy! It is a republic. Those politicians are our employees not our leaders.
Keep up the banter….just keep it civil.
Oh and sticking to Zach’s original post……..IT TOTALLY SUCKS! GM You are a disappointment!
What kind of front wheel drive hatchback crap is going to come out of GM now?
Frank-------former Teamsters 657 Union member.
naw i dont have a problem with anything,im actually learning more lol,was confused at first haha
and btw this according to chevy says,it shall help the first extended range electric vehicle.chevy is not going anywhere,if they do there just going to come back stronger and better,starting with this...
the chevy volt,kind of resembles the camaro
http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r...detroit081.jpg