Joey rebuilt my T56 to Level 2 specs.
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Joey rebuilt my T56 to Level 2 specs.
Couple of things to address here. First of all, only light duty 3/4T 2WD 6-lug rotors will retrofit on your stock spindles. 4WDs are completely different as are the HD 3/4T 6-lug rotors. In fact, most HD rotors are 8-lug, so you wont have to worry about that.
Second. The shifter that comes with the Kiesler kit is reported to be junk. But I have seen pictures of aftermarket shifters adapted to this forward location by elongating the bolt holes a bit. That being said, most of us are still going to have to deal with the long shifter stick which negates the advantage of the aftermarket shifter. It occurred to me, (having a mv3500 in my 93 with a Hurst shifter), that the Hurst shifter for my 5-speed has a much taller tower to facilitate a shorter throw with the long stick. If the shift ball at the bottom-that goes into the trans-is the same size-or even close-the the T-56s ball size, a simple plate adapter could be fabbed up to fit the two together. Im almost positive the this would make for very short throws with a long stick. And no seat interference either.
My 92 truck is a 2wheel drive so why would I buy a 4 wheel drive rotor? The Part number I posted for the 11" 6 lug rotor is almost identical to the 5 lug rotor on the truck now. I think a lot of the those HD rotors are 8 lug and a some are 13".
The newer GTO come with a shifter arm from factory angled 4" to front for better location. I have a GMM shift arm and am going to mate this to T56 shifter to see how it works out.
The above was a response to those that are changing to 6-lug. When you go to a 14 bolt rear to get the required strength you end up with 6 lugs. You can have the axles re-drilled or buy new axles with a 5 lug pattern, but the real easy way to go is to use light duty 3/4t rotors up front to match bolt patterns. And then you have a huge variety of rims available, of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Nash
As for the GTO shifter, if im not mistaken, it sits even farther back then the F-body shifter. And even if it points forward, I doubt it will clear a bench seat. And you will still have to put a longer stick on it. And that will make the throws much longer.
I thought the reason I posted the p/n # for the 5 lug to 6 lug rotor was to buy that rotor and you would have 6 lug all around. I am changing to 14 bolt semi floater and is 6 lug.
I was just making a statement that a GTO shifter has the a 4' forward extending shifter arm from the base like the Mc Leod shifter. I think you need to look at picture of the GTO shifter Yellow Sierra has for sale.and GMM shifter arm. I never intended to use a GTO shifter but "USE" the Tremec T56 shifter and adapt a 4" forward extending shifter arm to it like the Goat. It may not extend shifter far enough forward for the bench seat, but the bucket seats I purchased will solve the problem if it does not.
Oh OK, I misunderstood your post on the shifter.
The 90's SS454 trucks had a 5 lug 14 bolt rear end and I would find a rear from one of those trucks if staying with 5 lug. The 14 bolt rear I am using is 6 lug and want same pattern on front. The 6 lug wheel/rims as you said gives more choices and easier to find.
The shifter arm will go froward 4" and then will be bent to resemble the shifters that came in the old 4 speed shifters that came in full size chevy cars from late 50' to 60's. They were bench seats (until buckets seats came out) and the shifter came up over seat if moved all way forward.
What year/model did you use when converting from 5 lug to 6 lug?
I havent yet done this swap, but Ive done a lot of research on it. That and I was a GM parts guy for quite a few years. I was just passing on the info and experience I had collected. If I recall, they changed the rotor thickness sometime around '91, but I believe that the 3/4T LD 6-lug rotors are all the same from 88-98. You will obviously want to verify this by checking whether the in/out bearing is the same for both. And if you are putting the thicker rotor on an earlier model you may have to upgrade your calipers to the post 91 model.
The rotors did change around that time and you are right about checking in/out bearing. You never can get too much info on something before starting project.
It's not possible to know everything the first time around, no matter how much you research it. Sometimes you've got to stop theorizing and just jump in.
The rotors you'd want to use if you're converting a 2WD 5 lug to a 6 lug would be the C2500 front rotors.
I WAS planning on pulling the 6 lug front rotors off of a 4x4 parts truck that I have laying around, I discovered that wouldn't work however. Because:
The 2WD rotors have the lug-studs pressed in, while the 4WD rotors do not. I have the C2500 front rotors laying in my garage for whenver I can get around to swapping the front over, it looks like they will work, I just haven't had time to swap them, and I'm planning on getting some more use out of the front tires.
I have been looking around for wheels for a 88-98 C2500 (since that's what my truck will be "wheelwise" with the 14 bolt and front rotors both from the C2500), but, I haven't had much luck for some reason, I have no idea why? I've looked at summit, jegs etc.
I also discovered that the wheels from a 97 K1500 tahoe won't work b/c they have too much backspacing, the tire rubs just a hair on the leaf spring. My original plan was to use these factory alloys from the 'Hoe, but hey shit happens right?
The reason I said that 6-lug wheels were plentiful is because everything (1/2T anyway) built since '99 uses a six lug wheel. Dont look for 2500 wheels, (theyre ugly anyway), just look for wheels off of a newer truck and youre golden. The offset on most of the factory alloys is such that they usually tuck really well too.Quote:
Originally Posted by 90'rado
Oh, and if you really want to use the Hoe ones, just use a small spacer.
I just started looking for wheels with a 6 on 5.5 bolt pattern rather than for a C2500. A custom made spacer would probably work, but that would be getting pricey when I could just get a whole new set of wheels for not a whole lot more. I put a couple washers on the lug studs to see what that gave me and it did space it away, but it wouldn't really let the wheel hub center on the axle flange like it's supposed to.
Actually, 1/4" spacers are just a couple bucks and available from just about any parts store.
Hmm, well do you know of any p/n's, cuz I might look into trying those?? I always try to go into the parts stores with part numbers in mind, it helps expedite the process when dealing with the counter jockeys. :)
When I stacked two washers per stud it gave me the clearance I needed but it was too far out for the wheel to bolt on securely. I might try just one washer per stud and see what that gives since the tire is just barely rubbing.
I think when it's all said and done I might just get some new wheels altogether, I always see decent stuff on craigslist at decent prices.
Edit:
does anyone know what backspacing these wheels might have? I found a set of 4, with tires for 100 bucks, sounds like a pretty good deal to me no?
http://images.craigslist.org/3ka3ob3...0d71271b9a.jpg
No, no part #s. Theyre just a universal spacer with a few different bolt patterns. Most tire shops should carry them too. Dont stack them, and dont go over 1/4" unless you want to get the billet ones (think $$$$).
For you guys with the T56, what did you do for the drive shaft? The stock aluminum one behind the 5 speed is a couple inches too long. This is for a LB.
Thanks again.
-gl18rider
I did nothing to my drive-shaft after the swap, stuck it right in and drove off, two years or so ago when I finished the swap.
The F bodyT56 has a 27 spline output shaft just like the 4L60(e), so the yokes from either can generally be interchanged. I'm not aware of anybody running a T56 in a longbed that was originally a 5 speed truck, but I'm sure it can't be that much more difficult than a 4L60(e)-->T56 swap.
What trans is your 5 speed? NV3500 or 4500 I'd guess? I don't know alot about either of those transmissions. The main questions are: how does the overall length of whatever trans you have compare to that of a T56 or 4L60(e)?? (T56 & '60 are same length). And, what is the output shaft spline count for yoke compatibility?
I think I remember pnhigg saying that he had to shorten his driveshaft for the swap. I believe he went from V6&5-speed to 5.3&T56.
I'm now considering some options to upgrade my driveshaft to something stronger, as the one I've been running is the original 20 year old 1/2 ton driveshaft. Time for something more beefy, whatever that might be.
The guy helping me found someone to shorten the stock drive shaft about 1.5". The interesting part was the truck ujoint saddles were 1 1/16" I think and the f-body was 1 1/8". He looked around and found a ujoint with 2 different cup sizes. He suggested replacing the original rear joint while at it and discovered the stock rear was exactly what he'd been looking for.
I think my orig trans was the NV3500/MG5.
305/5spd/RCLB -> LS1/T56
The driveshaft will not need to be shortened when going from SBC and auto to LSX and T56 if you keep the same rearend. For you guys swapping to 14bolt semi float the driveshaft has to be shortened, how much I dont remember. Just make sure that the shop that shortens it also has the ability to balance it. And the 90-93 SS454 was the only 14bolt semi floater with 5 on 5 lug pattern that is a direct bolt in. They are getting tough to find and the original Gov-Loc traction device is usually trashed, when you find one plan on using an Eaton or Auburn plus gears plus installation plus shortened driveshaft. They get expensive fast!
The Shoenfeld headers fit great.
Hey 88stepside I'm running a 14 bolt SF rear and I didn't have to shorten the driveshaft. Granted I'm still running the TBI SBC 350 with my T56 combo, but this is the first I've heard of driveshaft shortening being a requirement. Can you please elaborate? Is this due to the difference in the block dimensions from the SBC vs. LSx blocks or what??? From what I've read, the LSx engines are actually smaller in terms of external dimensions.
I know plenty of guys who have done the 14 bolt swap in place of the 10 bolt and none that I'm aware of had to change anything with the driveshaft.
On a side note, you're right about the 90-93 SS454 14 bolt semi floaters gettin harder to find and more expensive. What I did was to get a 14 bolt SF from an 89 C2500 LD. It was 6 lug, so I DID have to convert the front to 6 lug to match, but it was maybe a little cheaper and easier than hunting down an original 5 lug 14 bolt SF from a 454SS.
I had SBC/NV3500 -> LS1/T56 using the engine mounts recommended by Shoenfeld (I forget which direction it moved the engine) and I did have to remove 1-2" of the drive shaft. The trans crossmember worked, but also was pushed back 1-2". Maybe its the bell housing or the engine mounts?
It sounds like maybe the mounts moved the engine towards the back?