Hydrogen Kit

I am going to start making them very soon. I have to get a different supplier because a certain part is no longer carried. Looking at the numbers I believe I can get a kit together for $200 or so Depending on one of the suppliers that I use. After I get this little endevour established, My prices WILL go up. I am making very little profit. and this price is for LS1truck.com members only. I may make some modifications to the kit to be easier to install. I will be testing anti freezing methods on the cell for the cold weather guys. By the end of next week, I should be ready to ship off the first couple of kits. I talked with a few people for advice, and I am not a rich man. Thinking about doing advance pay on the cells so I can buy building materials. And give me about a week or so for me to get supplies through the mail, a day or two to build, test, and package , and however long shipping takes. If I had more capitol I could have back stock but I'm just a normal guy. I will be offering a craftsmanship defect warranty for one week after delivery. No warranty on improper install or use. And if you want shipping insurance you will need to talk with me before I ship. And although I have made a 47% increase in mpg, I cannot guarantee that everyone else will have the same results. Allot of factors can be different from one vehicle to the next. This is a HHO producing
cell kit. It is being sold as that. It will be complete minus things I cannot ship like water. Also I have no reason to believe that my kit is in anyway dangerous, but there is bound to be somebody who cant follow directions. There are 2 things to be careful with. 1. make sure its wired right. 2. dont modify it in anyway. I will have a full disclaimer with the kit Any suggestions are welcome. You guys local to me, I can probably help install. Guys far away, I can do what I can over the phone.
As for the last question... An interceptor gauge is like a full time scanner from the obd2 port. it will fit in a gauge pod. I wanted it to show real time MPG average. But the older method works too. Thanx ALLOT you guys.

Id be willing to pay in advance, and since you arent too awfully far away from make the drive and kick a few back your way for helping with the install if you are willing and our schedules arent conflicting. Let me know and I will drop the cash your direction.

Nice, we've been experimenting with them also. In a couple we've seen built there's been very little change in fuel trims. You'd expect to see some type of change if your saving that much gas. I think the unit's that were built aren't putting out enough H2. We're going to try different design 1/8" plates with 1/8" holes to see if it disperses the H2 any better. We lighted one of them off and it put out a 6" plume. I want to see that one installed so I can log the date from it. Jeff, do you have HPTuners or a scanner to look at what's going on? I couldn't rememebr if you did or not. LOL

do you take visa?

If anyone is running the speed density tune with an interceptor, the MPG function is not accurate on the gauge. lol FIY

wow I am impressed, I dont know how I miss this thread. This is awesome jeff. Congrats.

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Originally Posted by NITROUS

Nice, we've been experimenting with them also. In a couple we've seen built there's been very little change in fuel trims. You'd expect to see some type of change if your saving that much gas. I think the unit's that were built aren't putting out enough H2. We're going to try different design 1/8" plates with 1/8" holes to see if it disperses the H2 any better. We lighted one of them off and it put out a 6" plume. I want to see that one installed so I can log the date from it. Jeff, do you have HPTuners or a scanner to look at what's going on? I couldn't rememebr if you did or not. LOL

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I dont have a scanner or hptuners. I would think that it would change the fuel trim as well. I have a wideband and it seems to be running about the same. From what I gather HHO helps burn the gasoline that doesnt burn in the combustion chamber. So Maybe thats the key. Another point is that if your cell draws too much power you can actually hurt gass mialage.

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Originally Posted by Sport91

Id be willing to pay in advance, and since you arent too awfully far away from make the drive and kick a few back your way for helping with the install if you are willing and our schedules arent conflicting. Let me know and I will drop the cash your direction.

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I have no problem with that idea. we just need to make a planned date for this.
BTW guys I think I figured out how to stop the water in the cell from freezing.

Dude congrats on making a really efficient one, Im very interested as I seen your sig when you first put the 25mpg HHO assisted which made me look at some pre-made kits online that were pretty damn pricey... If your willing to ship to Hawaii I would definitely like to be put on the list. :)

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Originally Posted by Maui4x4

Dude congrats on making a really efficient one, Im very interested as I seen your sig when you first put the 25mpg HHO assisted which made me look at some pre-made kits online that were pretty damn pricey... If your willing to ship to Hawaii I would definitely like to be put on the list. :)

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Ill ship it to Hawaii, but youll pay the shipping lol.

Let me know when you're going to build more and I'll send you some funds.

Hey Jeff,
Will this system work with a 5.3 flex fuel?

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Originally Posted by ff_jeff

Ill ship it to Hawaii, but youll pay the shipping lol.

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No worries man I would never doubt paying for shipping. :thumb:

PM me when your willing to build one again and Ill gladly paypal the funds to get you going. :D

So you are saying that the HHO generator makes the combustion process more efficient.

So would that not in fact create a lean condition that the 02 sensors would detect?

If the 02 sensors detected a lean condition would they not try to compensate by adding fuel?

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Originally Posted by jtaliaferro

So you are saying that the HHO generator makes the combustion process more efficient.

So would that not in fact create a lean condition that the 02 sensors would detect?

If the 02 sensors detected a lean condition would they not try to compensate by adding fuel?

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In my brain the hydrogen does burn therefore you need less gas and it should not run lean.

Yeah, Hydrogen is a flammable fuel source and you still need oxygen for it to burn. I'm sure its stoich value isn't 14.7:1 like gasoline though.

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Originally Posted by RedHeartbeat

Yeah, Hydrogen is a flammable fuel source and you still need oxygen for it to burn. I'm sure its stoich value isn't 14.7:1 like gasoline though.

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:doofus:


I am just a skeptical person so no offense to anyone, do you thinks this will really work on a ECU vehicle?

I wondering why there are so many discussions saying this "will not work on a computer controlled vehicle"?

And so many discussions saying it will not work at all?

sounds to good to be true.... but definetly cool...

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Originally Posted by TurboMic

sounds to good to be true.... but definetly cool...

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Allot of people say this. I did too. What most don't realize is Gasoline is only about 20%-30%+/- efficient and HHO increases the gasoline efficiency. H2 has a max of maybe 50% efficiency. Its like having higher octane fuel, for the same price as say... 93 octane. It also reduces polution by burning unused fuel before it leaves the combustion chamber.
Different engines with different strokes compression and rod ratios will have different ideal mixes for optimising power output. You guys with hp tuners can actually make it more efficient. H2 has an effect on flame speed, making combustion rapid enough that more of the energy in the gasoline as well as a high proportion of that in the H2 turns into cylinder pressure instead of heat. Thus How most vehicles could advance the timing for a little better power and fuel efficiency, you can retard the timing to create optimum cylinder pressure. So if you can get peak cylinder pressure sooner with a retarded spark, you may be able to tune-in whatever HHO mix you can make for best MPG. But you do not HAVE to have a tune for HHO. However tuning can further increase your power and MPG. I have documented an overall average with city and highway miles combined 23.4MPG. That means through out the week Going from work, to the store, racing a dodge, idling for about 20mins to an hour I get 23.4mpg with this cell. Highway I have averaged 24.9mpg and city at 21.4mpg. Before I had an overall average of 16.8mpg on just 93 octane gas. 18mpg hwy and 16mpg city. I have an AEM wide band and I have noticed leaner numbers but not often. I have seen 13.6 AFR on a wide open throttle run. (doesn't happen allot) I shut it down at 80 mph and coasted to a stop... I checked My plugs and they looked fine. I have seen what running lean can do to plugs... I almost melted some with a lean shot of NX. Mine looked normal. At cruise it has a few points difference in afr, but its not drastic. In-fact usually its right were it was before. I haven't measured how much my kit makes yet... I'm guessing about 1.5lpm-2.5lpm. But it doesn't over heat, and is upgradeable.
Yes carbed engines run better with H2 than fuel injected ones. But a average of 5-6mpg increase is still great. Some carbed guys are getting %100 increase. instead of a 15mpg they are gettig 30. I might think about building a carbed ls1 on my old truck and trieng this.

I know I said I would post up the for sale thread today, but I am on shift and don't have the pics, and exact price and stuff. I will get it up tomorrow after noon. I have noticed that my kit is making more hydrogen than before. I found out that when they break in they work better.
I will post pics of what you will get, prices, options, and I cant get exact shipping weight until I Get some of the other parts in the mail. I will make sure that It is first come first serve. I will have 1 kit ready a little sooner because I am just waiting on 1 part for it to be complete. Everyone else will have to wait on my to build them. If we do a group buy I can get them done a little faster buy ordering in bulk. Or in waves of 5 or so. I will need about a week for me to receive build parts in the mail, a couple of days to build and however long it takes to ship to you. Thanx guys.

Jeff!!!! This is some cool stuff man...I am impressed by your hard work on this and doing your homework.! Congrats on your project and I will be in touch with you about these....Ive got to try it.

i want 2 to start with...

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Originally Posted by ff_jeff

Its like having higher octane fuel, for the same price as say... 93 octane.

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Your explanations are good, and I'm interested to see everyone's results here. Like some said, it sounds too good to be true, but who knows.

The comment above though I have a problem with. Higher octane fuel is not more efficient, it has higher resistance to igniting. I don't know if you meant to say that higher octane fuel is more efficient or not, but that's what it looks like to me, which is not true.

Ok H2 has about a 130 octane rating... it burns at almost perfect efficiency. Gasoline is 93... burns at 25%+/- effeciancy. Not all high octane fuels are efficiant. But 130 octane gasoline is not the same as 130 octane Hydrogen.
gasoline is gasoline H2 is H2.

Put a dollar figure on what you need and let us know. Can we paypal you money when you're ready to start building units?

http://www.ls1truck.com/upload/files/189/Garden.jpg

i did it .sorry about the pic i just wanted to try loading a pic.lol.now am i supposed to resize this?

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Originally Posted by ff_jeff

Ok H2 has about a 130 octane rating... it burns at almost perfect efficiency. Gasoline is 93... burns at 25%+/- effeciancy. Not all high octane fuels are efficiant. But 130 octane gasoline is not the same as 130 octane Hydrogen.
gasoline is gasoline H2 is H2.

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Gotcha, that makes more sense. Thanks for clarifying.

yes, paypal is cool... tomarrow Ill start the list. Ill put up the price tomarrow with the thread. I just want to let yall know that if you buy from me and you have a problem, My relationship with you guys here is more important than making a few bucks. If you have any problems with it You can call me anytime.

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Originally Posted by ff_jeff

yes, paypal is cool... tomarrow Ill start the list. Ill put up the price tomarrow with the thread. I just want to let yall know that if you buy from me and you have a problem, My relationship with you guys here is more important than making a few bucks. If you have any problems with it You can call me anytime.

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:lol: we know your a stand up guy jeff!!!! just hurry up and get those kits made....i want 2...

Any idea on pricing yet ? :hyper2:

I think i want 2 as well

Damn fire fighter are always so sloowww maybe its the big red truck or something :lol: hurry up Jeffy...

OK guys new thread is up with price and info. http://www.ls1truck.com/forums/sale-...-hho-kits.html

Hey Jeff,
If I were to put one of your kits on my truck and it being turbocharged, would some sort of check valve be required to keep the boost (10psi) from backing into the HHO generator?

Also, what kind of pressures is the generator operating at?

Thanks and great work on the kit!

Not sure on turbo. I havent tested it yet on a turbo. I have heard that some people tap the air filter and the hho passes through the turbo then into the intake. I cant imagine fabbing up some sort of system with a check valve to keep the psi from the tuirbo from blowing back into the cell. Im sure somebody has done it.

Thanks for the info Jeff. I wouldn't think it would be a big deal to install some sort of check between the two. I'm thinking something PCV like.

I've got an STS so going all the way back to the filter would probably be more of a PITA than I care for. Time to research check valves.

Thanks again.

Heck, that didn't take long. Think something like this would work in-line between HHO and intake?

I wonder if the vacuum check valve from a Transgo vacuum shift modulater would work for that?

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Originally Posted by spinz71

Thanks for the info Jeff. I wouldn't think it would be a big deal to install some sort of check between the two. I'm thinking something PCV like.

I've got an STS so going all the way back to the filter would probably be more of a PITA than I care for. Time to research check valves.

Thanks again.

Heck, that didn't take long. Think something like this would work in-line between HHO and intake?

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I think this would work, but im not for sure. I wonder if at WOT it will still allow the HHO to come in. If it can keep out the boost while letting a lower force come in than it will work. Just make sure the fitting on the charged pipe is good, or youll leak psi.

After some research, I don't think the CV will work; i.e. keeping boost out and allowing HHO thru. Plus if it cuts on the HHO flow that will likely increase the pressure/heat in the HHO generator....probably not a good idea.

Might was well think about running it back to the air filter at the turbo.

I"m glad to see someone is already doing this with a Chevy truck on this board . I've been meaning to get on and ask questions but you're way out in front of me ! You've been busy doing all the R & D that I'm just too damned lazy to do ! :laugh: I've been reading about this for a few months now .One guy claims he's getting 60 mpg now with his old Escort station wagon just by experimenting . One thing he does say is that placement of the intake line is important or the 02 sensors will definitely lower your margin of improvement . He's got several videos covering this topic worth watching .
YouTube - Where to inject your HHO
He did install some kind of a circuit that adjusts the voltage coming from the 02 sensor to address the air fuel mixture issue caused by the HHO generator . Not sure how I would address that one but I guess if you're getting a 40% increase who cares ? If you work this issue out who knows how much better your mileage might get . I"m wondering if you could put some kind of a potentiometer into the circuit to adjust the voltage input to the hho . Maybe you could dial in your best mileage this way ? I'm also wondering if a scan gauge would still give your true actual mpg . Keep up the good work !!:rock:

Thanks bro. BTW I am about to start experimenting with what you were referring to, its called an EFIE. It makes it like you said, increase the margin of improvement. Also maybe a 02 extender, because they are cheap. My gains might have something to do with my tune from Allen.
I drove my truck again from a full tank, only this time I wanted to be sure of the difference, So I left the HHO off. I drove 420.5 miles and refilled 23.3 gallons. That's 18.04mpg average. So there is definitely a difference.