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:brushing teeth: :lol:
idk about the old people quik if they have been doing there job right working hard shouldn't they have been promoted by now........
there's plenty of "old" guys working in the oil field they are more protected than the kid that's a high school drop out and signed on a year ago to work floors, those kids arnt around anymore, well except me :D
The unions, yes can swing both ways. No matter how the system works, you've got bloodsuckers, and people who can work the system. Most unions this side of the us, you don't make much more than what you make working non union, except you've got to pay the dues, so in reality, in the northwest, there is no benefit working a UAW job. I don't really remember what it was, but I believe its like 15% of your paycheck goes to a union..so they just have to get you to make 15% more than everyone else, so they can get it.
I will also agree that, unions, can help. Especially with the old guy who has been busting their end for 35 years, to not be replaced by some guys nephew. But now if that guy has been there 35 years of just kissing up, yeah by all means fire that guy, get ride of him, but the union might keep that from happening.
But like everything, it can go both ways, it helps some, it screws some. Some work honestly get nothing, some work the system, and get farther than the honest person.
this video is best way to sum it up YouTube - Shuttin Dretoit Down Music VideoQuote:
Originally Posted by 408.Luke
not every company allows promotion from within...alot higher outside the company with younger personal that think to cut the senior guys to make up for outcosts of company.
how can a crew of say 20 35+ years seniors all get promoted? its not going to happen. they way some of you think is once you cant do your job as you once did 20yrs ago then you need to be tossed aside like old meat. Sorry the seniors are what gave us the opportunity to be working today
Back on topic now... can we change this thread title form GM is dying to UAW Union is dying. GM will live on!!! And for ME, I can retire at age 43:D... 13 to go:dancenana:
And really a person fresh from college has not purpose or reason being in a head position like that, or even someone younger than 30, unless they've got good reason, and some real good experience. I can see how that can cause issue, and a reason maybe a union in that case would have prevented that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quik
I'm thankful to work for a non union business, that actually hires from inside, then goes out from their. Where I work, its a huge business, but they keep it reasonable, so there is no fear of someone losing their job because they hired to many people, because they were required to hire so many, or have a certain amount of women, men, black, and white working. Though that really gets away from the union thing...
That works, just change the subject to get it back on topic :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by DBTBSS
Yeah, GM will probably pull through. At least one could hope that is.
give you and example.....Sheetmetal workers union which im in process of. The first year appentice makes 45k that is with benefit package. he isnt making 45 hr, he is making 13.5 hour but the rest is what is ticket is worth. his benefits are coverd and other expenses.Quote:
Originally Posted by mnc2fan
non union sheet metal worker is making 8.50 -10.0 out of school then he has to pay his part of his own benefits and etc
i went thru this when i was doing electrical. first year non union apprentice/helper as some call it i was offerd 8.50 hour and then they took benefits out. i had to do my electrical job and still work my old job as delieverly driver just to make ends meet. I made more and hour delievering pizzas [tips,wages together] so i could get my time in. Later did i realize that i was capped at 13hr. next step was foreman and no one is going to make a early 20s a foreman. most foremans were late 30s into 40s and that was 15 hr some made a few bucks more but average is 15.
i jumped shipped and started doing union plant work...i was paid very good money, i busted my arse and others slacked off. i hated this but then realize management was the fault not the most of the workers fault. yes you have to pay dues but what is 60-100 bucks a month when your making 5k a month?
also ive came to realize that non-union workers dont always want to show you the ropes as a young up/coming worker. they are afraid if they teach you then they can be replaced by you since you make less money. with the union they dont mind to teach you since others have taught them. if they teach you then you can help them get the job done......again the word ME stands out.....always about ME
I like that example. You've been on both ends, busted hump at both, and was only really getting paid what it takes when you joined the union. Give an equal opportunity. I can easily thank unions for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quik
I respect the high ups when they don't need a union to be able to do that in the first place though. Some jobs work a lot better with unions, so it doesn't make a difference, and some again don't need them.
Seems like the skilled jobs it keeps things fair having union, I would think where problems arise from a union are the places that don't need them. Either unskilled labor, like a grocery store (non-skilled)not needed,and of course the rail road companies(skilled) I see its needed. Rail Road companies, if the management is not fair those guys busting hump won't get the fair pay. A grocery store no, sure its work, but you don't need a union for that, work or go home. Things in that store are always several bucks more expensive over anyone else. Fred Meyers if you're wondering.
If I was going for skilled labor jobs, unless I know of a place that will be fair to me without union, I would much rather work union. Any other type of work, I don't want to work for a union.
Age, I don't feel its a limit, if you can do your job, and do it well, age shouldn't be a reason to be let go. I know I wouldn't let a person go just because they were to old to do the job, if something were to happen, me personally, would let them retire early, with the same benefits. For me, working with whatever I would be doing, I wouldn't need the union to keep it fair. I'd pay you right.
Drinking too much union koolaid poisons the brain IMO. I'm so glad I live in Texas and dont have to deal with that mentality, at least not at the Oil company where I work. My pay, my benefits, my lot in life is a function of me and my effort alone. I don't need help from the government and I dont need help from any union. Each to there own I guess.
Me working hard pays My bills, not someone else...
Would be nice if the whole world worked like that, work well live well. It used to be that way.
I'm glad there are employers that have been in the low part, busting ass not making much, to get to a point and higher people and pay them well if they work well.
I, like lots on here, have a job, and don't have to depend on anyone else, but me, to get my pay check. And don't have to worry about any one just cutting the rope, because I work like I should and I don't need to be replaced by someone to work better than me.