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Basically I lost 3rd and reverse so I tore it down and did a complete rebuild.
Now I just have no reverse, 3rd works just fine.
The weird thing is 3rd and reverse use the same clutch pack....so Im at a loss.
I have good pressure readings in all gears including reverse, fluid is not low either.
Hopefully some trans experts will see this and know whats the problem....:(
That's an old trans and a call back for me so I'll try to help iffen I cans.
Is there any GM service manuals that show the hydraulic fluid flow for the 80e, I have them for a 700r4 but thats back when I worked at the dealership?Quote:
Originally Posted by GasGuzzler
There are but range reference will help you more. I'll try to take a shot at it tomorrow if you still need help.
no reverse...
Case - rear band anchor pin broken or not positioned
Center support - leaking at case or broken
Center support seal leaking
Center support bolt loose, broken or feed hole blocked
Rear band broken worn or not anchored
Rear band apply pin broken worn or not anchored
Rear servo piston binding in case, seal leaking, damaged or worn
servo cover gasket leaking or displaced
servo cover damaged or bolts missing
Check ball missing
Crap....you put that odd ball 12-point bolt back in?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kros383SS
things you could have checked before rebuilding when losing reverse and third...
Solenoid "B" in the valve body. Stuck "off" condition. leaking seals. burned out, no voltage, no signal from PCM, loose connection.
2-3 shift valve item 312
Yep I need all the help I can get...:hyper2:Quote:
Originally Posted by GasGuzzler
Must have got this from the ATSG manual........ I have been over that list of causes for NO Reverse but still cant figure out why just no reverse seeing that NO third gear shares most of those causes.....:(Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHeartbeat
GM Service Information actually has a "No Torque in Reverse and Third" chart and a "No Reverse" chart. Here's the latter...
No Reverse
Checks
Cause
Case (7)
The rear band anchor pin is broken or the pin is not positioned.
Center Support (640)
Leaking at the case, or the support is broken.
Center Support Seal (639)
Leaking
Center Support Bolt (25)
• The bolt is loose or broken.
• The feed hole is blocked.
Rear Band (657)
Broken, worn, or not anchored
Rear Band Apply Pin (73)
The pin is too short or the pin is binding in the case.
Piston (65)
Binding in the case
Seal (66)
Leaking, damaged, or worn
Gasket (63)
Damaged or displaced
Cover (62)
Damaged
Bolts (61)
Broken, loose, or missing
Checkball
Missing
Fluid Pressure
Too low
Direct Clutch Components
•Reaction Plates (618)
The splines are worn.
•Friction Plates (611)
The splines or the friction are worn.
•Spring Assembly (607)
Jammed
•Housing (623)
Cracked
•Piston (619)
Leaking
•Seal (620, 621, 622)
Leaking
•Ball Check
Leaking
Now for range reference.
http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/p...s/image001.png
http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/p...image001-1.png
http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/p...image001-2.png
Doesnt have any solenoid's anymore, coverted to full manual. I lost 3rd and reverse after leaving the 3-4 shift valve and spring out when I was going through the VB trying to figure out why 2nd gear would not hold above 3500 RPM.Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHeartbeat
After that I lost 3rd and reverse, so I tore it down and found the direct clutches burnt along with the Int. Band which looks like it was skipping on the drum. The 4th clutches looked ok but there was burnt spots on the steels.
I have good pressure so Im assuming I have good pressure to the Reverse circuit but the band is not engaging.
Only problem with that is I have 1st gear which also uses the rear band and low/reverse piston.
3rd gear works fine so Im also assuming the direct clutches are engaging.
Im thinking real hard on this one before I pull the trans and it could be something in the VB or the rear apply piston.
Also after the rebuild Im getting close to 300 psi when I give it gas, Its vacuum modulated now. Didnt do that before.
Park, N, D idle psi-175 quick tap on the gas gives 300psi
Reverse idle psi-150 quick tap on gas 300 psi.
I was hoping to get my hands on some fluid flow diagrams so I can see whats going on in each gear.
I have the range ref. in the ATSG book which helps me somewhat.....:(
Dang I spent an hour figuring out how to take a screen shot and make it uploadable to photobucket so I could post it. Oh well.
Check your tq converter.
You do have the manual valve in the correct postion? Seen it do some weird stuff in my days when it is not. If you have engine braking in low then the band is ok. According to the power flow for reverse to work, the OD roller, direct clutch and the low band are applied. As far as solenoids in your case it does not apply. In a regular unit even though the 1-2 shift solenoid is energized it does not need to be on in order for the trans to have reverse. With you having 3rd gear I would think that the direct clutch is ok. I have seen where if the late style OD roller cage is just a little off when assembled, it will not hold. This is the style that uses a blue and black plastic cage. If you do take this unit a part, do us a favor and carefully remove the input shaft, over run drum and OD planet assembly. Make sure that the planet locks in one direction and free wheels in the other direction. This might be where your issue is. Another thing to check is do you have the little check 3/16's ball installed for the gear command function. This is the one that is installed between the valve body and the plate supplied from transgo. I do not remember if the hd-3 kit uses this but it is definitely something to check. Best of luck with this one. Vince B
Well it does not have 3rd gear either. I hooked up the DS and you can pretty much tell there is no rpm drop from 2nd to 3rd.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vince @ FLT
I pretty much tore back into it and dropped the VB and I noticed one thing...which requires a call to Transgo.
The transgo vb gaskets have two holes that are open and the gaskets that came with the rebuild kit do not have these holes. Its page 6 step 6 on the HD-3 instructions.
U use 7 ck balls for the case just like the HD-2 instructions but u discard the checkball in the 3rd/reverse bushing in the VB
thanks for the help
These holes in question, does the separator plate have a hole in these locations? If not I would think this is not an issue. In my last post I thought you had 3rd gear. :(When you say you have 1st and second is this in the manual ranges? Or in D3 or OD range? I will have to take a look to see if I have a set of -3 directions and take a look tomorrow when at the shop. Vince
Yes you had to drill these two holes in the sep plate. It seemed I had 3rd gear without the DS installed...upon installation you can accuratly tell there is no rpm drop shifting into 3rd.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vince @ FLT
Only way to shift this trans is manually now.
Called transgo you have to use the supplied gaskets or make holes in the gaskets that dont have them.
I asked them what these two holes did and Larry said it completes a circuit.
No kidding....I know that. Seems it has to do something with 3rd Exhaust.
Really wish I had some fluid flow diagrams.....would make this 100 percent easier IMO.:(
Take a picture of the plate for me so I can try to tell you what is going on there. I'll take a look in my book for you if you do. Vince
Here it is.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Vince @ FLT
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p.../transVB00.jpg
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...ransVB0001.jpg
Just to give you the heads up. That is a very old trans go kit. There are plugs that they have you install that I have never seen nor installed! The later kits do not install that many plugs. However they do have you drilling a bunch of holes in the valve body casting. I will look and see if I can tell you what the passage oil does. I will try to get back to you later today when I have time. It might be a good idea to think about starting over. The reason I say this is because with all the plugs that they have you install, I would be worried about having a possible cross leak. I will have to get back to you on this later. Vince
EDIT!!!! I forgot how involved that kit is with the seperator plate holes being filled in with the slugs! I actually have a valve body here on one a did a few years ago. It does have all the plugs. Let me take a look at what we have between the two of us and I will get back with you on some more info. Vince
On the valve body side my book is calling that passage orificed exhaust oil. On the case side the circuit is 3rd gear feed. So with that being said if you do not have the gaskets cut out as you were told then circuit can not be completed. I think if your clutches in the direct are ok, with doing this it should work. Hope this helps. Vince
thanks Vince....after spending a couple hrs looking at this I came up with the same results as you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vince @ FLT
Im crossing my fingers that installing the gaskets with these holes punched out I will regain 3rd and also my reverse seeing reverse cannot happen unless the direct clutches are applies.
I figured it was an old kit caused the instructions say 1995
Thanks once again...I will post results when I reinstall VB
your still gonna get beat!!!!!!
With that statement I can feel the love! Kros383SS your welcome and looking forward to seeing your results. VinceQuote:
Originally Posted by 06whiteChevy
were good friends always given each other hell about our trucks!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Vince @ FLT
I thing he will win.....He does after all have a NELSON Tune.....FTWQuote:
Originally Posted by 06whiteChevy
Coundnt have said it better myself!:LOL:Quote:
Originally Posted by WARLOCK
Vince, I have Reverse and third now. I punched the holes out and what do you know It works.
Only thing is when I shift to 3rd, its in 3rd but takes maybe 2-3 seconds before it shifts. Not slipping pretty much a delay going into 3rd but its still anice and firm shift.
Hey guys, I've been searching and searching, I've seen the end of the web and went back to the beginning again. When I google "4l80e no reverse slipping" every link is purple for the first 20 pages because I clicked it and read it. :(
I know this thread is about a year old but it's the only one with the answer to my problem...I hope, so I'm resurrecting it.
I have the same problem as described here, I installed a full manual kit from Transgo into a transmission that sat for a bit but was working fine when parked. Now I can only back up on level ground, not on any sort of incline, it just slips.
I bought my kit on Ebay, I may have got an older one that was metioned here. The pics are gone from this thread. They would probably help me figure out what my problem is. Can they be reposted? I don't recall having to punch/cut any holes in any of the gaskets/plate when I did the install.
Which holes need to be cut? I called Transgo today but got no answer, (it just rang). Any help would be very appreciated, I currently have the truck sitting in the driveway with the reverse servo assembly out (its fine, no cracks). I followed all of the instructions very carefully, took my time. I'm sure I have everything installed properly. Another thing, I tore the house apart looking for the instruction I had, can't find them.
Kinda ticked at Transgo right now!
Thanks!
Jeff
I dont get much time on the comp. lately so I'll give you my cell 832-361-9395.
I know the answer and have a PDF copy of the instructions.
Richard
check the rear band apply pin might be too short or may be binding in case.
:hyper2: Great! Thanks Richard, I'll give you a call today when I have some time , hope you do too. My email is jeffsemale@hotmail.com if ya could send that PDF to me, I would be indebted to you. :thanks:
I re-read the thread and realize you were using a rebuild gasket, didn't catch that the first time, does the T-go gasket have the holes already or do you have to cut them too? I guess I'll just give you a call.
And regarding the pin, why would putting the kit into th VB cause the pin to be short now? I know some guys add 1/4" to it. Does the servo not apply as much/not travel as high in the bore now, you would think it would be the opposite! Like I said, it worked fine just before the kit, the transmission was rebuilt a few years ago by a trans. shop, (they had added the SK bypass valve kit too). I'll get my hands on a caliper and check it, maybe they already put a longer pin in during the rebuild.
I appreciate the help guys!
Jeff
My reverse/low servo pin is about 4.33" long, seems it is the early 400/4l80e pin. According to this company: http://www.wittrans.com/c-713-4L80E.aspx?pagenum=48 (D34913F).
It's the shortest pin there is, they go up to 4.861" , pretty much 1/2" longer. Should I lengthen it anyways, even if it is not the root problem?
I don't want to hi-jack here, but if someone has the same problem this info will probably help them. Plus, the guys that are in this thread are hopefully subscribed to this topic already.
im also gonna jack this thread, i installed a hd2 in my 60e and lost reverse after about a week. i can feel it go into reverse but the truck wont move, every once in a while it worked. i got a preformabuilt now but i would like to fix the old trans. having a spare never hurts. all the forward gears are fine, just no reverse, their were several other problems with the shift kit but oh well.
Hmm, can't help ya there...seems like a totally different problem than the one we are dealing with in this thread, at least you HAD reverse.
Here are some pics explaining the problem....I called Transgo, they said I had an old kit, they sent me a PDF. of the updated instructions.
This is the page six step 6 that was mentioned earlier. My instructions only had 8 steps.
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/c...ff17/Page6.png
My gaskets after I took the valvebody down...
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/c...7/DSC00257.jpg
The pressure blew through but it's still restricted. The other gasket looked even more restricted.
So I cut the holes for proper flow in both gaskets...
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/c...7/DSC00266.jpg
RANT:
I'm pretty ticked off at Transgo, I'm sure they've come across this problem before. Why wouldn't they have a bulletin or something up on their website warning people of this blunder of theirs!?!? They sure wasted my time and money! I read on Pirate4x4.com about a guy that had a very similar problem, they sent him the new kit, free of charge...it's some kind of triple stack plate system. I didn't get that offer!
When I called them and explained my issue Larry assumed I had the triple stack kit, when I said no, just one plate, he was like "OH, you have an old kit then, I'll have to look up those instructions." So he found them and we figured out I had the instruction even prior to the ones he pulled up. I KNOW for a fact my instructions did not mention the 3X holes. It would have put up a red flag and I would have looked into it further. I was VERY meticulous. I didn't even have the holes on the gaskets they gave me in order to mark the holes in the plate. The holes in the plate must have been put there by the shop when they rebuilt the tranny back when my dad owned it, I can only guess that it adds additional pressure to the direct clutch when all the other circuits are stock...dunno.
Thanks a lot Transgo!!:ugh2:
Hope this can help someone with the same problem.
i herd nothing but good about transgo until a little while ago, another thing that made me furious was the c clip for the boost valve was wider than the grove in my trans. and it blew out half a mile from my house so that was another $30+ of fluid and an hour of my time and a tow home. also my trans had more check balls than transgo said it did, another 2 hours of my time and again $30+ of fluid. summit racing sold me a old kit, the new ones might be better? oh well i wont buy another one. my preformabuilt 60e solved all my problems.
Yeah, I guess companies make mistakes, these things happen. I just wish it didn't happen to me!
So I put the valvebody back up today, topped up the ATF, fired it up, put it in R. Guess what?... I was able to back up over top of the brick (4" high) I used to chock the tire.:luv: I wasn't even able to back up over a calculator before. That 3X passage is necassary. Too bad it didn't say so in the instructions I originally got with the reprogramming kit!
If anyone has any questions regarding this shift kit (4l80e-3 full manual reprogramming kit) go ahead and feel free to ask, I've pretty much followed every circuit they (Transgo) route by looking at the powerflow diagrams in the technicians guide.
I have the Hydra-Matic tech guide PDF. and the shift kit instructions PDF. I'll send them to you if you need them. The technicians guide has any info you'll ever need to know regarding the 4l80e.
Can you email your pdf`s both of them I am thinking about getting the Transgo kit and I just want to make shure I`ll do it right. Apreciate it and Thank you.
Email is greenlineusa@yahoo.com
Last ost was awhile back man :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by mototorture
I'll send them now.
Well in that case can you send em to me? Lambodonomo@ls1truck.comQuote:
Originally Posted by builtyota
Huh, I just realized I don't have the tech guide pdf. anymore. I had to wipe the drive and I guess I didn't back that file up. I'll try to find it again. Here's a link to a few pages from it: 4L80E-Reference-MaterialQuote:
Originally Posted by LamboDoNoMo
The Transgo pdf. is being sent in 10 seconds.